Non - Brexit

red_house said:
Sorry just back in....can someone confirm that the EU will only grant an extension on a vote that Bercow has put the kibosh on ?
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Yeah basically.
May's argument seems (from her letter today) to be that Tusk's statement that a short extension can only be granted if her deal passes, adds new context to her deal, and is the substantive difference that Bercow wants to see. Perhaps that's what May will talk about later?

If so, whether Bercow will see it that way only he knows. Our fate could be in placed his hands.
 
RobTrent said:
Didn't the leavers tell us that the EU would be bending over backwards to keep us sweet?
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Yes the EU must be over the moon at losing their one of their major trading entities. Well I reckon Merkel has a sweat on at the very least and for good reason , Macron as well although he's just doing the typical French thing of posturing and meek threats.
 
red_house said:
Yes the EU must be over the moon at losing their one of their major trading entities. Well I reckon Merkel has a sweat on at the very least and for good reason , Macron as well although he's just doing the typical French thing of posturing and meek threats.
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If you like. Although I think the posturing is rather closer to home.

Interesting Sky News article, hardly staunch Labour supporters:

https://news.sky.com/story/the-pms-conduct-puts-parliaments-long-term-vitality-in-peril-11671146
 
"Donald Tusk has put a no-deal Brexit back on the table by saying EU leaders will only agree to a short delay if MPs back Theresa May’s deal next week."

So, those who doubt how undemocratic the EU really is, Donald Tusk is one individual issuing an ultimatum that interferes with the entire UK Parliament. Parliament has rejected May's deal twice. Bercow has said that there will not be a third vote. Why is Tusk trying to force this through against the wishes of elected MPs when it is already dead in the water?

Stinks.
 
ErikthViking said:
"Donald Tusk has put a no-deal Brexit back on the table by saying EU leaders will only agree to a short delay if MPs back Theresa May’s deal next week."

So, those who doubt how undemocratic the EU really is, Donald Tusk is one individual issuing an ultimatum that interferes with the entire UK Parliament. Parliament has rejected May's deal twice. Bercow has said that there will not be a third vote. Why is Tusk trying to force this through against the wishes of elected MPs when it is already dead in the water?

Stinks.
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Because his job is to look after the interests of the EU, not the interests of a country that wants to leave.
 
ErikthViking said:
"Donald Tusk has put a no-deal Brexit back on the table by saying EU leaders will only agree to a short delay if MPs back Theresa May’s deal next week."

So, those who doubt how undemocratic the EU really is, Donald Tusk is one individual issuing an ultimatum that interferes with the entire UK Parliament. Parliament has rejected May's deal twice. Bercow has said that there will not be a third vote. Why is Tusk trying to force this through against the wishes of elected MPs when it is already dead in the water?

Stinks.
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And May isn't trying to force this through? I've had red_house telling me Europe is bricking itself, but you're telling me they're being undemocratic because 27 countries are telling us the conditions for leaving?

Everyone else fault isn't it. Poor Brexiteers.
 
stanthevan said:
Because his job is to look after the interests of the EU, not the interests of a country that wants to leave.
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Don't you get it?

This has actually proved a point that some leavers have been making. That the EU is a bully when it comes to interfering with the sovereign affairs of a member state.

Tusk is saying that MPs should vote for a deal that Parliament has already rejected twice by huge majorities. If that isn't coercion, what is it?

Who would like it if Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin told the UK parliament how to vote?
 
RobTrent said:
And May isn't trying to force this through? I've had red_house telling me Europe is bricking itself, but you're telling me they're being undemocratic because 27 countries are telling us the conditions for leaving?

Everyone else fault isn't it. Poor Brexiteers.
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Not 27 countries, not 27 governments, just Donald Tusk.
 
ErikthViking said:
Don't you get it?

This has actually proved a point that some leavers have been making. That the EU is a bully when it comes to interfering with the sovereign affairs of a member state.

Tusk is saying that MPs should vote for a deal that Parliament has already rejected twice by huge majorities. If that isn't coercion, what is it?

Who would like it if Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin told the UK parliament how to vote?
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Don’t you get it. We are no longer a member of the EU, no longer a member state and I imagine Putin had a fair bit of influence in getting us to leave.
 
stanthevan said:
In name only. We have no desire to be in the EU and Tusk is doing his job by making sure his members interests come first.
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First, "his member's?" They aren't Donald Tusk's members, but member states with equal rights.

Second, the UK is still a member of the EU, a full member.

Would you like it if the club told season ticket holders that they can't attend the last match of the season because they are not going to renew next term?
 
ErikthViking said:
First, "his member's?" They aren't Donald Tusk's members, but member states with equal rights.

Second, the UK is still a member of the EU, a full member.

Would you like it if the club told season ticket holders that they can't attend the last match of the season because they are not going to renew next term?
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Would you accept it if a player on your team says that he doesn’t want to play for your club anymore and will be leaving at the end of the season but still wants to play an active part even though he clearly can’t be arsed to be there?
 
stanthevan said:
Would you accept it if a player on your team says that he doesn’t want to play for your club anymore and will be leaving at the end of the season but still wants to play an active part even though he clearly can’t be arsed to be there?
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Not a like for like analogy.
 
stanthevan said:
In name only. We have no desire to be in the EU and Tusk is doing his job by making sure his members interests come first.
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What are their Interests ? (said in a Jimnnina stylie sort of way)

You see if one of my major benefactors had decided to jump ship then absolutely I would have a sad on. (I mean where else will they find £13 billion a year) and yes I would play hard ball to ensure no one else did.

However take that out of the equation and surely its in the best Interests of these countries to ensure that someone from the top table still wants to trade with them, visit them, spend money with them and the rest. I'm not saying this with any sort of sense of expectation as Rob appears to be implying, I'm saying it based on the current situation as it stands. This country spends a shed load of money abroad.

Tusk can say what he likes but I'm pretty damned sure they aren't all singing from his hymn sheet.
 
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