Match Report and Mom v Fulham

I agree to an extent about lack of players yesterday. Certainly defensively anyway.

However, despite how out of favour / inexperienced Hyndman and Ofobohr are, they are still professional footballers at a PL club. Given the nonsense of a formation we were playing at the end with Mousset, Solanke and Fraser in goodness knows what positions, would it have been any worse bringing one of them on?
Certainly nothing to lose with them coming on and the experience for them would’ve been invaluable. As I’ve said in another thread, we had the players to switch to 352 (Wee Man and Ake as wing backs, Brooks central) which seemed the obvious move from where I was sitting.
 
The whole formation thing was a mess.
O.K. Smith is out so I sort of understand asking Stan to play full back - he has done it before - but to ask a young centre back to come on and play as a fourth centre back in defence is crazy especially against a team like Fulham. We invited players like the quick and talented Sessegnon to push forward and skin Ake, we surrendered through lack of numbers the centre midfield and by the end we had a gap between midfield and our 4 wandering forwards about a mile wide. This obsession of playing 4 at the back esp at home against a poor side is costing us.
I know injuries have really hit us hard but a bit more creative thinking wouldn't hurt - why not give Hyndman a go, get Brooks in behind Wilson, push king out wide, push Ake into midfield to name just a few options. instead it was the same old.
 
The impact of having no right back (or even Junior when he went off) can’t be underestimated from yesterday. No overlapping to help create space for Brooks (and then Wee Man) completely blunted us. The tail end of the game was painful and we never really hit our rhythm throughout, yet could still have been 2 or 3 up by halftime.

Jeff was MoM for me yesterday, tried to make things happened and never hid.

Looking forward, I don’t want to see the squad torn apart - firstly I don’t think we can afford it and secondly, too much change can be very hard to manage. Just look at Fulham’s season. Big assumption that we don’t lose anyone, but if we don’t, central midfield and the full back positions needs strengthening and maybe a winger who can help take the pressure off Wee Man and Brooks. The biggest issue for me as has been highlighted by numerous posters is the reluctance to move away from 442 when needed. We just didn’t have the players on the pitch to do it yesterday.

Totally agree.
History will tell you Eddie will bring 2 or 3 players during the summer. Evolution, never revolution.
 
Some may consider it post defeat bingo, but it's the common criticism of the lack of plan B for when plan A isn't working for whatever reason.

Unlike last season when we routinely tweaked things and came back from behind on an almost weekly basis, this season we've been completely incapable of making productive changes and recovering.

Now our injuries have some input to that yes, when the bench isn't as strong as it could be then productive changes is harder. But we seem locked into this rigid 4-4-2 despite whatever players are available.

And our attempt at plan B against Leicester Burnley, and seemingly yesterday from what i can tell, is to aimlessly throw forwards players on without any structure or system what so ever. One extreme to the other.

Would be very interested to know Eddie's thinking behind this. Cos on the face of it, to a mere mortal, it seems crazy.
 
Some may consider it post defeat bingo, but it's the common criticism of the lack of plan B for when plan A isn't working for whatever reason.

Unlike last season when we routinely tweaked things and came back from behind on an almost weekly basis, this season we've been completely incapable of making productive changes and recovering.

Now our injuries have some input to that yes, when the bench isn't as strong as it could be then productive changes is harder. But we seem locked into this rigid 4-4-2 despite whatever players are available.

And our attempt at plan B against Leicester Burnley, and seemingly yesterday from what i can tell, is to aimlessly throw forwards players on without any structure or system what so ever. One extreme to the other.

Would be very interested to know Eddie's thinking behind this. Cos on the face of it, to a mere mortal, it seems crazy.
Think back to lower league football 10 or more years ago. There was a real taboo about playing 1 up front. I can remember the meltdowns on our forum when SOD or Bond did this

ZOMFG ONE UP FRONT! AT HOME!!! FFS

Now think about what level and era Eddie and most of the coaching staff played. The 4-4-2 was king and managers would pride themselves on playing 2 strikers rather than “defensive 4-5-1”

Of course at top levels, for many years clubs have used strikers in wider positions. The traditional touch line hugging winger no longer covers his full back, instead he plays in the front line as an inside forward. The much maligned defensive 4-5-1 has become an attacking 4-3-3 as Man City and Liverpool spectacularly demonstrate.

We obviously don’t have the same level of player as Salah, Mane, Sterling or Sane. But if / when Fraser or Brooks move to a bigger club, do you really think they’ll be employed wide in a flat midfield 4? Of course they won’t.

There no reason at all why we couldn’t use Brooks, Fraser or even King here in similar roles as part of an attacking 4-3-3. We’d likely get even more out of them than in their current roles.

I don’t think Eddie is naive to this. I just don’t think he has the level of experience to coach this system. What he does have a lot of experience from his playing and coaching career is generally successful 4-4-2 systems.

This is why he talks a lot about losing our identity. He knows how to make a 4-4-2 work but I think he’s failed to recognise we no longer have the type of player to play that system. It doesn’t even have to be 4-3-3, but younger players will be far more familiar with more modern formations than 4-4-2.

The so called old guard of S. Cook, Francis, Daniels and Pugh are the ones who know how to play a 4-4-2. With most of them no longer having the ability to play to PL standard, so has our ability to play Eddie’s favoured system too.

IMO of course!
 
Problem is how do you boost the midfield when there are just 2 fit central midfielders on the books?
A bit of creative thinking.
We have 3 central defenders in Mepham, Cook and Simpson, push Ake into midfield with Lerma and Gosling, put Brooks in behind Wilson at the front of a midfield diamond, Fraser and King to play more like wing backs. would it have worked - I don't know but it couldn't have been worse.
 
Think back to lower league football 10 or more years ago. There was a real taboo about playing 1 up front. I can remember the meltdowns on our forum when SOD or Bond did this

ZOMFG ONE UP FRONT! AT HOME!!! FFS

Now think about what level and era Eddie and most of the coaching staff played. The 4-4-2 was king and managers would pride themselves on playing 2 strikers rather than “defensive 4-5-1”

Of course at top levels, for many years clubs have used strikers in wider positions. The traditional touch line hugging winger no longer covers his full back, instead he plays in the front line as an inside forward. The much maligned defensive 4-5-1 has become an attacking 4-3-3 as Man City and Liverpool spectacularly demonstrate.

We obviously don’t have the same level of player as Salah, Mane, Sterling or Sane. But if / when Fraser or Brooks move to a bigger club, do you really think they’ll be employed wide in a flat midfield 4? Of course they won’t.

There no reason at all why we couldn’t use Brooks, Fraser or even King here in similar roles as part of an attacking 4-3-3. We’d likely get even more out of them than in their current roles.

I don’t think Eddie is naive to this. I just don’t think he has the level of experience to coach this system. What he does have a lot of experience from his playing and coaching career is generally successful 4-4-2 systems.

This is why he talks a lot about losing our identity. He knows how to make a 4-4-2 work but I think he’s failed to recognise we no longer have the type of player to play that system. It doesn’t even have to be 4-3-3, but younger players will be far more familiar with more modern formations than 4-4-2.

The so called old guard of S. Cook, Francis, Daniels and Pugh are the ones who know how to play a 4-4-2. With most of them no longer having the ability to play to PL standard, so has our ability to play Eddie’s favoured system too.

IMO of course!

Agree to an extent but Howe hasn’t been blind to playing 4-3-3. Reading back through the Chester report from 10 years ago and that was the system that we started with on that day.

Also remember the following season where Howe completely flummoxed Pardew with an interchangeable system that was so fluid Pardew had no idea what to call it post match.

It’s seemingly only since reaching the Premier League that we have become far more rigid in our systems and approach.
 
This is why he talks a lot about losing our identity.
Our recent identity is that of a team which set the Championship alight to gain promotion to the Premier League. All those who thought we'd last just one season have been proved wrong when we played attractive, attacking football, getting a good beating at times but still playing 'the Bournemouth way'. Where is that all gone now? There seems to be no coherent plan to deal with our opponents. If they let us, we beat them, if they put up a fight we struggle.
 
Fickle.

Sorry but that's the second time you've said the season is over for you. Fair play give someone else your ticket. A week ago we were ecstatic, there's still plenty of time to finish the season on a high.
I was speaking metaphorically...I will still watch the games but not get so worked up about them...we are safe for another season...the players know that...Howe knows that and we all know that!....no point in thinking anywhere near differently!
 
Fickle.

Sorry but that's the second time you've said the season is over for you. Fair play give someone else your ticket. A week ago we were ecstatic, there's still plenty of time to finish the season on a high.
Completely agree. Season over because of a couple of poor results? Come on Garbo, stick with it. Only three games to go!
 
Has Eddie actually become less tactically astute the longer he has spent in charge?

No, I think that’s impossible. I think he has become more set in his ways though.

It was interesting Chris Hughton saying the Brighton players had begged him to change formation to something more attacking but he has told them no, the stakes are too high for this season and they will finish with what they have worked on.

SOD was the same here. I remember in his early days he made subs before half time but come the end it was the same thing week in week out.

The problem in this league is as well as being up against the best players you are also up against the best analysts. You have to have other styles and surprises. We have lost that now and are easy to predict. It then just comes down to whether teams can stop our Fab Four or not
 
No, I think that’s impossible. I think he has become more set in his ways though.

It was interesting Chris Hughton saying the Brighton players had begged him to change formation to something more attacking but he has told them no, the stakes are too high for this season and they will finish with what they have worked on.

SOD was the same here. I remember in his early days he made subs before half time but come the end it was the same thing week in week out.

The problem in this league is as well as being up against the best players you are also up against the best analysts. You have to have other styles and surprises. We have lost that now and are easy to predict. It then just comes down to whether teams can stop our Fab Four or not
I thought Brighton were playing the holy grail of all systems 433 of late.......shame ......they were doing quite well with the old tired outdated 442 tbf....;)
 
Our recent identity is that of a team which set the Championship alight to gain promotion to the Premier League. All those who thought we'd last just one season have been proved wrong when we played attractive, attacking football, getting a good beating at times but still playing 'the Bournemouth way'. Where is that all gone now? There seems to be no coherent plan to deal with our opponents. If they let us, we beat them, if they put up a fight we struggle.
The Championship season has been the pinnacle so far - the whole team playing as one , together , focussed and believing completely in what they were being trained / asked to do - fantastic stuff .
Obviously it’s hard to replicate that over the years with changes in players and the whole premiergreed thing changing how we look at things ...
 
Interesting comments from Fraser quoted in the BBC report.

"We started well and had a couple of chances, which we probably should have scored, and as usual we gave away a stupid goal - everyone's to blame," Fraser said.
"When we're good we always say 'let's back it up' - and then we lose the next week. We need to get to grips with it. I think it's mentality, I think we go into games thinking it's too easy.
"That's our season summed up: good one week and then a shambles the next. It's really disappointing because we thought we started well and then we just crumbled."
Fair play to him for being so honest .
 
We were pretty crap but it's a bit of a stretch to draw major conclusions from this game. People saying injuries didn't matter must be mad. We lost half our attacking threat from FB before kickoff and the rest of it when Stan went off. Few options in the middle to change things has been a problem for ages. Gosling wouldn't be starting on current form if we had other options.

That's not excusing their general crapness. Win next week though and all is forgiven again.
 
A lot of sense in the report and comments here. Our system on Saturday was an utter shambles and the repeated throwing on strikers move is a worrying lack of imagination. Rarely works because it just creates a massive void between our defence and the strikers. Pass around the back, chip it in to Wilson/King who lay it off to...nobody. Rinse and repeat. When we beat Fulham 3-0 we had Brooks in the number 10 role and it worked a treat, so seemed strange to stick him out wide. Admittedly we still have a lot of injuries and our bench looked very weak on Saturday, so hopefully this isn't a long term trend.

Another thing, our mentality seems to be weaker than previous seasons. We've only got 1 point after conceding first (Watford) since the games against Everton and West Ham in August. It seems we just don't have any answer if we concede first.

Agree that we need evolution in summer and not a major revamp (assuming we keep the stars) but think there are a few who just aren't good enough for the first team squad (Ibe, Rico, Bego, Gosling and Mous). Howe needs to bold though and keep the team evolving, not do a Wenger!
 

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