Did JT do a good job?

Waz afcb said:
If Travers wins our player of the season like Bego did then yes I will hold my hands up, but at this stage it’s pretty obvious to me that he’s a downgrade at this moment in time. No disrespect intended to him, he’s done well considering it’s his first real spell in the side. Begovic was just unreal last season though.
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Well you could say that Travers has earned us 4 points in the last two home games.....one big save today.
 
Topfarrier said:
I'm just bemused that you think a.we 'LOOK' Better than last year and b. It's down to good management.
I mean do we look any better than at this stage last season? or even under Woody towards the end of the season?.... really?
Do you think the way Parker handled that second half was good management?
We're top of the league and as fantastic as that is nobody can really say we've played well.
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Do we look any better? I think we do personally as we have a team spirit that was lacking last year despite having better players than Parker had to start with.

He was forced into playing four youngsters then was able to sign late and had to build a side later than JT had to. Despite all of this we are top. Fair play to him. I think he handled the second half alright as we held on to win, would I have done anything different not sure I would to be honest, once Jerome came on we needed another centre half

We are unbeaten and doing it with academy players not a world class talent way too good for the leagye bailing us out continually like JT and Woody had. He isn’t perfect but he is nine games into a new club. I think he deserves a lot of praise.
 
Topfarrier said:
Fair enough.....what do you think we were trying to do tactically in that second half today?....we didn't have a single shot!.....I mean was it clear to anyone else because I didn't have a clue what we were trying to do.
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I think that we were trying to play our game just as we did in the first half but that we did not look after the ball very well at all. In the first half we retained possession well but in the second in just wasn’t clicking, every forward player guilty of losing the ball on a number of occasions. When it wasn’t clicking our heads started to drop a bit and we started to drop deeper and deeper, at the start of the half our forward players were at least attempting to press, by the end they had dropped back quite a bit. It’s almost like after a bit we just accepted that we weren’t clicking and we’re going to have to defend for our lives.
 
Waz afcb said:
I think that we were trying to play our game just as we did in the first half but that we did not look after the ball very well at all. In the first half we retained possession well but in the second in just wasn’t clicking, every forward player guilty of losing the ball on a number of occasions. When it wasn’t clicking our heads started to drop a bit and we started to drop deeper and deeper, at the start of the half our forward players were at least attempting to press, by the end they had dropped back quite a bit. It’s almost like after a bit we just accepted that we weren’t clicking and we’re going to have to defend for our lives.
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To drop deeper was our tactic....we had nothing else....no pattern of play....no press.... absolutely no threat up front whatever.... that's not a dig at Solanke as he's not a target man that you can lump the ball up to....he needs players in around him .....we just retreated and hung on..... there's winning ugly and there's winning cowardly.... today was the latter.
 
Topfarrier said:
To drop deeper was our tactic....we had nothing else....no pattern of play....no press.... absolutely no threat up front whatever.... that's not a dig at Solanke as he's not a target man that you can lump the ball up to....he needs players in around him .....we just retreated and hung on..... there's winning ugly and there's winning cowardly.... today was the latter.
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Sometimes you need to acknowledge that the opposition can change a game. And I do think you’re exaggerating a little.
 
Topfarrier said:
To drop deeper was our tactic....we had nothing else....no pattern of play....no press.... absolutely no threat up front whatever.... that's not a dig at Solanke as he's not a target man that you can lump the ball up to....he needs players in around him .....we just retreated and hung on..... there's winning ugly and there's winning cowardly.... today was the latter.
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We quickly worked out that we couldn’t press because Luton had stopped trying to play through us, they had resorted to playing it long into the channels. We naturally had to drop deeper to combat this, it was clever by their manager to negate our threat. They turned the game into a battle. We did not look after the ball well enough, due to their formation change we were able to outnumber them on the flanks but for whatever reason it just wasn’t clicking.
 
Topfarrier said:
To drop deeper was our tactic....we had nothing else....no pattern of play....no press.... absolutely no threat up front whatever.... that's not a dig at Solanke as he's not a target man that you can lump the ball up to....he needs players in around him .....we just retreated and hung on..... there's winning ugly and there's winning cowardly.... today was the latter.
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You can’t ever accuse me of being melodramatic again btw lol
 
Waz afcb said:
Apparently they are considerably better players now though!
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I know! What you have to remember is that this season JA is a seasoned campaigner of 21 years of age whereas last season he was just out of school at 20. What bad luck for JT he was too young to play doing homework and that!

Its always the same on here with some people Waz constructing scenarios to make their old arguments stack up. People trying to really persuade us that the reason Anthony didn’t play last year was his inexperience and not of course that last years squad contained an international left winger currently banging in goals in the Spanish top flight and the champions league. There was a reason JT didn’t play Anthony, and it’s the same reason none of us would in the same situation. Still it makes me chuckle.
 
Topfarrier said:
To drop deeper was our tactic....we had nothing else....no pattern of play....no press.... absolutely no threat up front whatever.... that's not a dig at Solanke as he's not a target man that you can lump the ball up to....he needs players in around him .....we just retreated and hung on..... there's winning ugly and there's winning cowardly.... today was the latter.
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Blimey. There’s a man who spoke out against Parker’s appointment and trying to justify it. At least we’ve learnt how to beat Luton…. Something we couldn’t manage last year.
 
Waz afcb said:
If Travers wins our player of the season like Bego did then yes I will hold my hands up, but at this stage it’s pretty obvious to me that he’s a downgrade at this moment in time. No disrespect intended to him, he’s done well considering it’s his first real spell in the side. Begovic was just unreal last season though.
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He's probably not as good as Begovic but there was no guarantee that Begovic wouldn't have gone to sh*t again like he did before. Not sure he's started all that well at Everton has he? In any case keepers just need to be good enough and not world beaters. Which back five would you rather have? Last year's or this year's? Both you an Neil are picking this year's let's face it.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Blimey. There’s a man who spoke out against Parker’s appointment and trying to justify it. At least we’ve learnt how to beat Luton…. Something we couldn’t manage last year.
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Well you'd know about that sort of thing better than me Neil.....at least I haven't had a massive flounce because we're winning games .
We played better with 10 men against this lot last season than we did today.
 
I don't think its wise to expect too much from any game these days...or from any team.

I was listening to a Leeds fan earlier on TalkSport...saying. " our players just don't turn up for games so we will stay in a relegation battle"..
...their fans were so Upbeat last season...
It seems that today's players are such moody creatures.. and fortunes can shift tack very quickly over the slightest upheaval off field....and we fans only get very limited info on occurrences.
 
Topfarrier said:
Well you'd know about that sort of thing better than me Neil.....at least I haven't had a massive flounce because we're winning games .
We played better with 10 men against this lot last season than we did today.
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Even JTs best mate who gave him the job had to bite the bullet and sack him once he realised what most of us knew at his appointment. I didn’t really have to justify my views, unless you think he should still be managing us of course.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I know! What you have to remember is that this season JA is a seasoned campaigner of 21 years of age whereas last season he was just out of school at 20. What bad luck for JT he was too young to play doing homework and that!

Its always the same on here with some people Waz constructing scenarios to make their old arguments stack up. People trying to really persuade us that the reason Anthony didn’t play last year was his inexperience and not of course that last years squad contained an international left winger currently banging in goals in the Spanish top flight and the champions league. There was a reason JT didn’t play Anthony, and it’s the same reason none of us would in the same situation. Still it makes me chuckle.
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Pull the other one Neil you're the one on here trying to argue last year's squad is better than this year's just to try and win your old argument. You've made up some nonsense about King being better 'on paper' as if him wanting out and downing tools doesn't matter. You wouldn't have played him last year and neithet would

Obviously Danjuma was better than anyone in this year's squad but that's it. You said yourself Zemura is now better than Rico but even he looked rash and raw against West Brom yet he's come on leaps and bounds even since then let alone the first half of last season.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Pull the other one Neil you're the one on here trying to argue last year's squad is better than this year's just to try and win your old argument. You've made up some nonsense about King being better 'on paper' as if him wanting out and downing tools doesn't matter. You wouldn't have played him last year and neithet would

Obviously Danjuma was better than anyone in this year's squad but that's it. You said yourself Zemura is now better than Rico but even he looked rash and raw against West Brom yet he's come on leaps and bounds even since then let alone the first half of last season.
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Begovic wanted out and downed tools under Howe but flourished under JT. Who knows what King would have been like under a new manager but he is a better player than Lowe.

Zemura has been coached well. That’s why he has improved. He was 20 last season, not 17. JT preferred Rico and Kelly and also didn’t encourage his full backs to bomb on as much as Zemura.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Begovic wanted out and downed tools under Howe but flourished under JT. Who knows what King would have been like under a new manager but he is a better player than Lowe.

Zemura has been coached well. That’s why he has improved. He was 20 last season, not 17. JT preferred Rico and Kelly and also didn’t encourage his full backs to bomb on as much as Zemura.
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Begovic wanted out because he got dropped and fell out with Howe. King wanted out because he thought he was too good for us just like Fraser. You've spoke to people behind the scenes I'm pretty sure you know it's a hell of a stretch to suggest King was going to become a motivated world beater who didn't want a move under a different manager.

You agree that JZ had improved in his time this season right? You agree that he probably wouldn't have got his chance if it wasn't for injuries even this season?

This year's squad is better. Parker is a better manager than JT or Woodgate but trying to still prove your 'anything other than auto promotion is failure' and 'worst manager we've ever had' by talking about how good King is 'on paper' is as ludicrous as those statements were.

Is anything other than auto promotion a failure this season?
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Begovic wanted out because he got dropped and fell out with Howe. King wanted out because he thought he was too good for us just like Fraser. You've spoke to people behind the scenes I'm pretty sure you know it's a hell of a stretch to suggest King was going to become a motivated world beater who didn't want a move under a different manager.

You agree that JZ had improved in his time this season right? You agree that he probably wouldn't have got his chance if it wasn't for injuries even this season?

This year's squad is better. Parker is a better manager than JT or Woodgate but trying to still prove your 'anything other than auto promotion is failure' and 'worst manager we've ever had' by talking about how good King is 'on paper' is as ludicrous as those statements were.

Is anything other than auto promotion a failure this season?
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I don’t know how many times I have to explain the ‘on paper’ argument. Anyway it’s largely academic as neither King nor Lowe were/are strong enough for the first 11 so have little impact on results. What I do know from people behind the scenes is King was unhappy starting wide or behind Solanke… maybe a different manager would have not done that? We don’t know but we also don’t know the opposite!

JZ I don’t know you know. I think Parker may have realised he was better than Rico… again it’s an argument in our heads though as we just don’t know.

The automatic promotion argument is different for me this year. Last year us Norwich and Watford had the best squads and I thought we were better than them, results against them would back that up not that that’s everything I know. This season I think Fulham and West Brom have better squads than us on paper and I also think watch Sheff U now they are clicking a bit. So I’m not convinced we have the best squad and therefore play offs would not be the failure it was with last years squad in my eyes. All subjective of course.
 
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