Eli Junior Kroupi

You certainly wouldn't want to mess with the squad regarding outgoings when you're changing the Captain steering the ship.

I feel that Andoni didn't extend due to the outgoings.

A veiled comment in the media after announcing his departure that Kroupi should not be sold adds further weight to that assumption.
 
Then he was at the wrong club. There's no way this team could realistically prevent the outgoings that happened. And if someone comes in with a £100m bid for Kroupi this summer, he'll go as well. They won't as it's too soon but that's simply how it is.

In just the same way that if we go to Ferencváros, Red Star Belgrade or Bristol City and bid for their top young talent, as long as we meet their valuation then they won't be able to stop the deal either.

There's literally a handful of clubs in the world that can resist that situation. I'd be delighted for AI if he got the job at one of them, but I think he'll find they come with a whole raft of other challenges he wouldn't have to deal with here.
 
kirsikka said:
Then he was at the wrong club. There's no way this team could realistically prevent the outgoings that happened. And if someone comes in with a £100m bid for Kroupi this summer, he'll go as well. They won't as it's too soon but that's simply how it is.

In just the same way that if we go to Ferencváros, Red Star Belgrade or Bristol City and bid for their top young talent, as long as we meet their valuation then they won't be able to stop the deal either.

There's literally a handful of clubs in the world that can resist that situation. I'd be delighted for AI if he got the job at one of them, but I think he'll find they come with a whole raft of other challenges he wouldn't have to deal with here.
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Yes, but also plenty of benefits to joining an elite club too. And risks for him by not making the move to a top club when the offer is on the table.

Its a judgement call isnt it. It certainly isnt guarenteed that staying here for another year or two is the better option for his career.

Reality (imo), is if we're offered 100 million this summer by one of those clubs, its extremely unlikely Kroupi will say 'thanks, but im staying at AFCB for another season'.

Its not pureky money, but he'd likely double what we could offer him and the sheer stature, pulling power and magnitude of these clubs, just means I cant see it being realistic to believe he or any of our players woukd turn it down.
 
Agree 100%. Much as it pains me, I think he's probably made the right move for his career in moving on at this point. It would be hard for his stock to get too much higher as an AFCB manager.

And with Kroupi, he'll have a career planned out with his agent. Much like Haaland did at a young age. Or, if you check the recent Semenyo interview, Huijsen had. They'll certainly expect him to move to one of the big clubs within the next two seasons. This summer does feel a little early but if someone bids big then... that will be that.
 
kirsikka said:
Agree 100%. Much as it pains me, I think he's probably made the right move for his career in moving on at this point. It would be hard for his stock to get too much higher as an AFCB manager.

And with Kroupi, he'll have a career planned out with his agent. Much like Haaland did at a young age. Or, if you check the recent Semenyo interview, Huijsen had. They'll certainly expect him to move to one of the big clubs within the next two seasons. This summer does feel a little early but if someone bids big then... that will be that.
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Yes indeed.

I know thats how it is, and likely optimises players careers, but this whole career map, perhaps even already spoken to said clubs, just 'feels' a bit deflating and mechanical.

All this 'management', be it var, matchday experience etc just kills a bit of the magic, spontaneity imo. Every facet has to be organised, project managed etc.
 
dragonm8 said:
You certainly wouldn't want to mess with the squad regarding outgoings when you're changing the Captain steering the ship.

I feel that Andoni didn't extend due to the outgoings.

A veiled comment in the media after announcing his departure that Kroupi should not be sold adds further weight to that assumption.
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He's going to love Crystal Palace.
 
kirsikka said:
Agree 100%. Much as it pains me, I think he's probably made the right move for his career in moving on at this point. It would be hard for his stock to get too much higher as an AFCB manager.

And with Kroupi, he'll have a career planned out with his agent. Much like Haaland did at a young age. Or, if you check the recent Semenyo interview, Huijsen had. They'll certainly expect him to move to one of the big clubs within the next two seasons. This summer does feel a little early but if someone bids big then... that will be that.
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The only reason his stock can't get much higher is because all of his good signings get sold.

A club like ours, little old Bournemouth etc etc.

The excuses don't wash when attempting to hold on to an elite manager.

The up and coming elite manager doesn't give a flying **************** about the clubs finances.

He wants to improve his best players and then compliment his squad with additions to realise his aim.

Rightly or wrongly, he won't get that here.

So he has left.

He will go to Chelsea.
 
kirsikka said:
Agree 100%. Much as it pains me, I think he's probably made the right move for his career in moving on at this point. It would be hard for his stock to get too much higher as an AFCB manager.

And with Kroupi, he'll have a career planned out with his agent. Much like Haaland did at a young age. Or, if you check the recent Semenyo interview, Huijsen had. They'll certainly expect him to move to one of the big clubs within the next two seasons. This summer does feel a little early but if someone bids big then... that will be that.
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Its why we need to qualify for the UCL.

The pull of being both in the Prem and in the UCL is genuinely pretty significant.
 
Ice8Cold said:
Its why we need to qualify for the UCL.

The pull of being both in the Prem and in the UCL is genuinely pretty significant.
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Agreed.
We have been, by stages, becoming a 'bigger' club on the global stage. Promotion to the PL was a huge step, and opened the doors to players we could never have dreamed of signing before.
Yes, we have become a sort of mid-table fixture of the PL, but the next step up will be qualifying for European competition, and really, only the CL will bring the added stature to put us into that next category of clubs (with company like Juventus, Roma, Lyon, Villareal, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Bayer Leverkusen, Porto, etc.). These are clubs who aren't the top of the top, but are respected enough that they can get, and keep for a long time, world-class players.

We'll never be able to stop clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, etc. from poaching our best players, but once we make the step up to that 'European' level, we will be able to retain those players who are 'world class but not world's best XI'.
 
canadiancherry said:
Agreed.
We have been, by stages, becoming a 'bigger' club on the global stage. Promotion to the PL was a huge step, and opened the doors to players we could never have dreamed of signing before.
Yes, we have become a sort of mid-table fixture of the PL, but the next step up will be qualifying for European competition, and really, only the CL will bring the added stature to put us into that next category of clubs (with company like Juventus, Roma, Lyon, Villareal, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Bayer Leverkusen, Porto, etc.). These are clubs who aren't the top of the top, but are respected enough that they can get, and keep for a long time, world-class players.

We'll never be able to stop clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, etc. from poaching our best players, but once we make the step up to that 'European' level, we will be able to retain those players who are 'world class but not world's best XI'.
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If Leicester had qualified for the UCL those two seasons where they bottled it big time, I'm positive they would still be a Prem side.
 
I'm going to go so far as to say Kroupi might be a better finisher than Pitman. It's taken many years to find someone to demote Brett to my own all time no. 2. I wish I was actually joking!!! For context, I never saw Ted.
 
canadiancherry said:
Agreed.
We have been, by stages, becoming a 'bigger' club on the global stage. Promotion to the PL was a huge step, and opened the doors to players we could never have dreamed of signing before.
Yes, we have become a sort of mid-table fixture of the PL, but the next step up will be qualifying for European competition, and really, only the CL will bring the added stature to put us into that next category of clubs (with company like Juventus, Roma, Lyon, Villareal, Atletico Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Bayer Leverkusen, Porto, etc.). These are clubs who aren't the top of the top, but are respected enough that they can get, and keep for a long time, world-class players.

We'll never be able to stop clubs like Real Madrid, Barcelona, PSG, etc. from poaching our best players, but once we make the step up to that 'European' level, we will be able to retain those players who are 'world class but not world's best XI'.
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I understand we want to be seen more than we were and are, but we aren't going to end up in the same bracket as Juventus, one of the most storied clubs in the world and with a recent history of 5 Serie A titles in the last 10 years and two Champions League/European Cup titles in their history (runners up seven times).

From the point of view of young talent, there is a combination of things they're looking for depending on the stage of their progress:

a) How often will I play?
b) What standard is the league?
c) How much will I be paid?
d) Will the club challenge for titles/cups?
e) Will the club play in European football every season?

a) and b) are where we have an advantage.

Even if things go swimmingly well, we're unlikely to be competing on c), d) or e) with absolute consistency.

Plus, we're swimming in the same tank as 5 or 6 of the biggest sharks in world football who want to sign players proven in our league. Whilst we are successful, we will never stop getting raided by them.

Reality is, the only way we can compete consistently is by having a conveyor belt of young talent that performs as one drops in the replace another going out. We still won't ever be the destination for those young players, just the stop off.
 
bourneslippy said:
I'm going to go so far as to say Kroupi might be a better finisher than Pitman. It's taken many years to find someone to demote Brett to my own all time no. 2. I wish I was actually joking!!! For context, I never saw Ted.
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:D think thats safe to say.

I know we love Pitman, but i do think the 'world class', best finisher the clubs ever had is overblown.

He wasnt the quickest I know, but he wasnt that sluggish, that if his finishing ability was that good, he'd have had a stint at the top level. As many other slowe strikers did, during his peak years.
 
kirsikka said:
From the point of view of young talent, there is a combination of things they're looking for depending on the stage of their progress:

a) How often will I play?
b) What standard is the league?
c) How much will I be paid?
d) Will the club challenge for titles/cups?
e) Will the club play in European football every season?

a) and b) are where we have an advantage.
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I actually think we can compete with many 'big' non-English clubs on (c); the whole point of my post was about how (e) could make a big difference.

I think you (and I) actually forgot
g) Will I play in a massive, exciting stadium in front lots of fans?

This is another thing we could, in theory, fix, if we want to make that move up, but the current expansion isn't going to move the needle on (g) when compared to most European 1st and 2nd-tier clubs.
 
Telly123 said:
:D think thats safe to say.

I know we love Pitman, but i do think the 'world class', best finisher the clubs ever had is overblown.

He wasnt the quickest I know, but he wasnt that sluggish, that if his finishing ability was that good, he'd have had a stint at the top level. As many other slowe strikers did, during his peak years.
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Many better strikers but genuinely difficult to think of better finishers.
 
Kudos said:
Many better strikers but genuinely difficult to think of better finishers.
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Im not sure how it can be argued that he is imo.

Hes never played (apart from a few games) at pl level.

So what are we basing it on... excellent finishes at lower levels, versus pl strikers we've had who've had to operate versus higher calibre players?

There are players in non league or even sunday league who appear superb finishers on consistent basis, scoring screamers and from all ranges/angles. but theres a reason they don't usually end up playing at a much higher level. And its not usually because they near world class finishers, but lacking elsewhere.

As I say pitman isnt that slow, he appears to have decent enough instinct around anticipation plus flair, vision to pull out the spectacular.

If his finishing was that special, as alluded to on here, he'd have played more in the pl imo.

I get people are going to suggest someone like Wilson is more athletic and a better striker, solanke workrate, all around game. But put them in a league 1 team like pitman was at peak, and theyd be scoring all manner of screamers, that lead people to thinking similar... theyd have a little more time on the ball, and opportunities to exploit slightly more lax defending. The ball would be rocketing into the net from all angles, distances, much more so than in the pl.

Its extremely difficult to distill every players attributes down to who has best finishing imo. Anticipation, off the ball, positioning, conposure , technique, balance, concentration... off top of my head, all play a part in 'finishing'. And are all influenced by other variables, such as quality of opposition, quakity/strength /style of team you play for.

As I say, im not sure how people can suggest pitman is a better finisher, as he operated against lower calibre opposition to our pl strikers.

I know you know your stuff and not suggesting you here, but it strikes me as one of those fairy tales where the person likes to think theyre clever/in the know, have the inside track on something all the professionals have somehow overlooked:

'i used to go to school with Jamie redknapp/ lionel Messi and his brother. Trust me, his brother was the wayyyy better player' type stories, that makes little sense. Except now we're discussing a prolific league 1 striker being a better finisher than pl strikers, some with england callups :D
 
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Telly123 said:
Im not sure how it can be argued that he is imo.

Hes never played (apart from a few games) at pl level.

So what are we basing it on... excellent finishes at lower levels, versus pl strikers we've had who've had to operate versus higher calibre players?

There are players in non league or even sunday league who appear superb finishers on consistent basis, scoring screamers and from all ranges/angles. but theres a reason they don't usually end up playing at a much higher level. And its not usually because they near world class finishers, but lacking elsewhere.

As I say pitman isnt that slow, he appears to have decent enough instinct around anticipation plus flair, vision to pull out the spectacular.

If his finishing was that special, as alluded to on here, he'd have played more in the pl imo.

I get people are going to suggest someone like Wilson is more athletic and a better striker, solanke workrate, all around game. But put them in a league 1 team like pitman was at peak, and theyd be scoring all manner of screamers, that lead people to thinking similar... theyd have a little more time on the ball, and opportunities to exploit slightly more lax defending. The ball would be rocketing into the net from all angles, distances, much more so than in the pl.

Its extremely difficult to distill every players attributes down to who has best finishing imo. Anticipation, off the ball, positioning, conposure , technique, balance, concentration... off top of my head, all play a part in 'finishing'. And are all influenced by other variables, such as quality of opposition, quakity/strength /style of team you play for.

As I say, im not sure how people can suggest pitman is a better finisher, as he operated against lower calibre opposition to our pl strikers.

I know you know your stuff and not suggesting you here, but it strikes me as one of those fairy tales where the person likes to think theyre clever/in the know, have the inside track on something all the professionals have somehow overlooked:

'i used to go to school with Jamie redknapp/ lionel Messi and his brother. Trust me, his brother was the wayyyy better player' type stories, that makes little sense. Except now we're discussing a prolific league 1 striker being a better finisher than pl strikers, some with england callups :D
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Take your point but we had Wilson (and others) in the Championship like we did Pitman so we do have some comparisons.

Also totally agree it's subjective and personally I think of finishing as just hitting the ball. No anticipation, not the strength needed to make that half yard, not how well they managed the cheeky nudge while setting up the shot.

I think athletically he was poor for League football levels which is why he had such a strange career. I do genuinely think he was a "min max" player.

There's definitely an under appreciation of how good these guys are. I know some fit very competent military types in their 20s who played a game with Fletch in his 40s and said he was insanely good. You'd be forgiven for thinking they were paying against a peak Ronaldo/Kante hybrid.

Anyway perfect pub fodder because there's no way to define it let alone prove it.
 
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