End of season clear out

Who are the six, Olly? I can see Boruc, Pugh and Harry - and maybe Defoe. Who else? Do you mean off the squad, or moved to a back-up position - i.e. perhaps Franno?
 
northstandmark - 19/3/2018 13:50

For me the 'next level' would be attaining a bit more consistency in the league. Our first half of the season was pretty worrying. We've always been a bit streaky since promotion, runs of defeats and runs of wins strung together. Our current habit of going behind and waking up and pulling results back is great entertainment, but again some consistency instead would be a measure of progress.

However I appreciate that blooding new talent into the side is bound to result in inconsistency. If we're now starting to settle on a new core: Begovic, Ake, S.Cook. L.Cook, and the new variables are wide and up front, maybe that will settle things down a little.

Also giving the cups more of a go, has to be on the club's priority list whilst we're enjoying such status in the game. That's something that a deeper squad, better reserves, brought about by more experience at this level and better facilities, should help with.
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This is the next level I was on about
 
Garbo - 19/3/2018 18:25

...I doubt it Jones was a footballing thug in the same crew as Roy Keane, Norman Hunter,Ron Harris, Tommy Smith, and Terry Hurlock!
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Oh Garbo - “ball grabbing midfielder” - you certainly are old enough to remember, probably what drove poor Gazza to drink. :eyes:
 
Out of contract players (this summer): Boruc, Allsop, Wiggins, Cargill & Pugh. I'd be surprised if any of them get a contract come the end of the season. Boruc only one I'd consider extending and that's only based on how bad I feel Federici is compared to him.

Then we have too many players who are very much unknown quantities, loaned out/unsettled with amount of game time they're receiving here and probably would prefer to move on who are taking up a lot of our wage budget.

Unknowns: Ramsdale, B. Smith, Hyndman, Mahoney, any youth players (Simpson & Kyle Taylor from what I've seen look to be the best prospects) we haven't seen any of these play PL football consistently. You could probably throw Mings (Who I don't particularly rate that highly when he has played and have liked the look of Simpson more on the left side he seems more assured on the ball for me) and Mousset into unknown quantities from a consistency perspective as neither have started too many games although moose looks a raw talent who I'd like to see play more.

Grabban, Gradel, Afobe & Arter probably will all seek to leave the club if offers come in and that would free up a lot of wages as all of them will be fairly high up the pay structure and could recoup transfer fees. Grabban would only have a year left so need him gone as a transfer asap rather than lose him on a free the following summer.

Then you have the old guard and the question of how much further can we take players. Francis & Daniels are ageing and regressing as players from what they once were. S.Cook has struggled for most of this season but is probably someone that should stay but should not be starting first choice next to Ake imo. Surman will stay as a squad player and he should be nothing more. Then more than likely he and franno will likely leave in summer of 2019 when their contracts end.

Squad if all those players out of contract are released:
Goalkeepers: Begovic, Federici, Ramsdale
Defenders: A.Smith, Francis, Daniels, B.Smith, Mings, Ake, S.Cook, Simpson
Centre Mids: Surman, L.Cook, Arter, Gosling, Hyndman
Wide Players: Ibe, Stanislas, Fraser, Gradel
Forwards: Wilson, King, Defoe, Mousset, Afobe, Grabban

I think we desperately need a CB to partner Ake, and definitely a CM to partner Lewis Cook preferably a defensive minded player with a physical presence because as well as Gosling has done in his run in the team he is limited in ability so needs upgrading moving him to a replacement role. A wide player as hopefully Gradel will be sold and Pugh out of contract. Both full back positions probably need looking at with Franno and Daniels ageing. Would love a creative player as I do think we lack creativity outside of L.Cook & Junior, whether that be from a central area or provided by a creative wide player.

It's a process and maybe not all of it can be done in one window or even one season but the holes are there for all to see and no doubt Eddie has his targets and a plan for the next few seasons. For what it's worth I've compiled a list of players I've watched this season and thought looked pretty good (doesnt include any relegation players although there are some that have previously been mentioned who would improve us and I do like)

Simone Verdi (Bologna) Abdoulaye Toure (Nantes), Santiago Arias (PSV), James Maddison (Norwich City), Mattia Caldara (Atalanta - Loan Juventus), Tom Cairney (Fulham), Ryan Sessegnon (Fulham), Joe Bryan (Bristol City), Nordi Mukiele (Montpellier), Ollie Watkins (Brentford)
 
Build around a spine of Ake ,Cook and Wilson .
If that's right Pughys contract is up would be a real shame to see him go .Surely has one more season as a periphery player .
 
BTK - Defoe will have 2 years left come the summer.

Jamie_Wills - I think Mings could be great for us if he could stay fit for more than 2 games. He was decent in our game vs Man City at the start of the season and pretty good last season.

I think both Cairney and Sessegnon from Fulham are being linked to bigger clubs than us and for a lot more money.

Whoever mentioned signing Pritchard from Huddersfield, please no! Just because he plays well against us is no reason to sign him or anyone else! He has been pretty ineffectual since our game against them.

As for the "next level", as much as I'd like to see us progress, and in many ways we have, I think we need to get used to this. Yes Burnley and Leicester are safe by mid-march but they may well not be next season. The bottom 14 in this division with the exception of possibly Everton are likely to be in a relegation dogfight for much of the season, every season. That's why finishing 17th every year might sound negative to some and possibly not interesting, but that is where teams that have been here for many years and long before us and spent a lot more money like Swansea, Palace, West Brom, Stoke, West Ham, Southampton are now aiming to finish and prolong their PL life.

Nothing that I've seen has made me think our PL history will ever be much different from that.

And I'm still lovin it.




 
Inconsistency sums up this season.

The cold reality is that some of our players have gone as far as they can go; they can't deliver what's needed, week in, week out, to move this club forward.

Being a 'good servant' means nothing. You don't avoid relegation or advance as a team/club on sentimentality. However, equally, recognising that some players time should be up doesn't mean that what they've achieved for this club isn't respected, appreciated, or recognised.

If we are to advance we need to retain Begovic, Ake and Lewis Cook this summer.

Defence remains our weak point, it's undeniable.

To step up we clearly (and sadly) need two new full backs (although Adam Smith probably fills one of those slots). We also need a new CB to partner Ake.

Midfield is a conundrum.

Lewis is obviously the first choice and it's clear that Gosling brings out the very best in him. I'm guessing Arter is off in the summer (he's already bailed on his own soccer school) and Surman is 32 in the summer. Hyndman was impressive for Rangers but EH doesn't seem to fancy him.

Out wide Ibe (two goals, three assists in his last eight PL appearances, I think) and Stanislas (probably our most technically gifted player) should stay on.

I always thought the 'tiny margins in the PL' line was pundit hype but in reality it's true - Ibe and Stanislas were both dismal against WBA but each delivered those one-off bits of magic that win games.

Wee Man I just don't know about, same could be said for Mahoney.

I could rattle on but we all know our biggest problems are at the back. It really is time for EH to fix that.

 
Matt Worthington is viewed highly, new deal recently be nice to see him & Simpson appearing from the bench next season. I understand the logic behind blood them slowly but if they come on and do well I feel it strange to then drop them or loan them out when they hopefully are the future, obviously understanding the importance of game time so I guess it's a difficult call.

I've watched Matt in Soton since a young lad & believe he could become a good pairing with Lewis in CM. He gets stuck in, has composure on the ball & keeps things moving, be interesting to see how things pan out.
 
If you ignore our first 4 games, 36 points from 27 puts us on 1.33 points per game, equating to just over 50 points over a season.

We are in a state of evolution right now, with some of the old faces beginning to take a back seat and the newer, younger faces getting more game time. We just need to keep on this path, and try to keep hold of these new improving players (e.g. Lewis Cook, Ibe, etc).

Improve our consistency and we will have a chance to break through that 50 point barrier and secure safety much earlier in the season.
 
I put this up on the Reid thread, but maybe with the talk of signing various players it might be better on here.



Checking up on Reid on different websites I came upon another Bristol City player who looks good.

Jamie Paterson the former Forest player in midfield. His favourite position is playing just behind Reid, but City have used him on the left of midfield.

He has scored 5 goals with 8 assists.

Anyone know much about him or remember seeing him play?


 
Ibe is a conundrum - I had to double check that he has been here for almost two full seasons and we are still only seeing glimpses of his talent and potential.
 
Once we're safe I'd be interested to see a front 3 line up of:

Ibe Mousset Stanislas

I wouldn't have a bloody clue what any of them were going to do from one moment to the next, but it'd certainly be entertaining and interesting.
 
northstandmark - 20/3/2018 14:34

Once we're safe I'd be interested to see a front 3 line up of:

Ibe Mousset Stanislas

I wouldn't have a bloody clue what any of them were going to do from one moment to the next, but it'd certainly be entertaining and interesting.
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Once we are safe I would like to see one or two fringe players getting a run out
 
AFCB Lost in Brum - 20/3/2018 04:44


Inconsistency sums up this season.

The cold reality is that some of our players have gone as far as they can go; they can't deliver what's needed, week in, week out, to move this club forward.

Being a 'good servant' means nothing. You don't avoid relegation or advance as a team/club on sentimentality. However, equally, recognising that some players time should be up doesn't mean that what they've achieved for this club isn't respected, appreciated, or recognised.

If we are to advance we need to retain Begovic, Ake and Lewis Cook this summer.

Defence remains our weak point, it's undeniable.

To step up we clearly (and sadly) need two new full backs (although Adam Smith probably fills one of those slots). We also need a new CB to partner Ake.

Midfield is a conundrum.

Lewis is obviously the first choice and it's clear that Gosling brings out the very best in him. I'm guessing Arter is off in the summer (he's already bailed on his own soccer school) and Surman is 32 in the summer. Hyndman was impressive for Rangers but EH doesn't seem to fancy him.

Out wide Ibe (two goals, three assists in his last eight PL appearances, I think) and Stanislas (probably our most technically gifted player) should stay on.

I always thought the 'tiny margins in the PL' line was pundit hype but in reality it's true - Ibe and Stanislas were both dismal against WBA but each delivered those one-off bits of magic that win games.

Wee Man I just don't know about, same could be said for Mahoney.

I could rattle on but we all know our biggest problems are at the back. It really is time for EH to fix that.
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“Defence is our weak point” strikes a chord but we have the 7th best defensive record away from home this season, less goals conceded than arsenal or Liverpool for example. Thus is defence our problem?

At home we have let in the highest amount of goals in the prem (joint with Watford) but this bold open approach brings a lot of points.

Our style of play exposes defenders. I reckon Steve Cook would play for England if he was in the Burnley team as the team is geared up to defend. He gets shown up more playing for us due to the requirement to play it put from the back and less defensive cover.

Steve Cook is a must in our defence. Really believe he adds more than just his own defending and is a key part of the team spirit that drives us on.


 
This talk of the 'next level' is pretty confusing though. At the start of season we would have seen West Ham, Stoke, West Brom and them up the road as being the target, the teams slightly out of reach whilst we scrabble with Burnley, Watford, Swansea, and Palace to try to get amongst them. Yet we look at that list now, 9 months later, and they're all at the bottom, though in a sense so are we. No idea what the next level is, hopefully the ability to attract players with the game intelligence to walk straight into the team, and seeming a more attractive proposition to international players, not just a paycheque but somewhere to really develop. In the sense I want players who leave us to be going to Chelsea and Man City rather than West Ham and Southampton. I think that's the best way top define whether e're progressing, that and getting more points year on year
 
AFCBade - 20/3/2018 15:28

“Defence is our weak point” strikes a chord but we have the 7th best defensive record away from home this season, less goals conceded than arsenal or Liverpool for example. Thus is defence our problem?

At home we have let in the highest amount of goals in the prem (joint with Watford) but this bold open approach brings a lot of points.

Our style of play exposes defenders. I reckon Steve Cook would play for England if he was in the Burnley team as the team is geared up to defend. He gets shown up more playing for us due to the requirement to play it put from the back and less defensive cover.

Steve Cook is a must in our defence. Really believe he adds more than just his own defending and is a key part of the team spirit that drives us on.
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Completely agree. I don't really understand the negativity towards Cook. He was arguably our player of the season last year and our defensive record has only improved this season. The way we play is bound to lead to mistakes at the back, but talk of Cook not being up to it is I think very misguided.

I also hope Pugh gets another year. Maybe I'm being sentimental, but I still think he can contribute as a squad player and as a senior pro is most likely a positive influence on the younger guys. Model professional in my opinion.
 
I have a few objections to this thread and some of the comments.
Firstly end of season clear out sounds a bit like getting rid of your old clothes! These are players that have been with us for 3 divisions & 2 promotions.
I think the likes of francis, Daniels, arter, surman and Pugh have a lot to offer the club still. There's no way Eddie will make the wholesale changes being advocated, where are the replacements? Buying the experience those 5 have is not there with the money we have
Francis is one of the first names on eddies team sheet, ahead of Adam Smith even, I think defensively he's better and adds height. The style we play will always mean some mistakes, and yes it's frustrating, but mid table, what is everyone's expectations when you see the teams we are above.
Let's get some Lewis cook type back fills in, bring them in slowly then we can talk about letting the old guard go
 
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