Have we improved?

SlowDownDerek said:
We're not stronger. We won't get stronger every year - we're just off the back of four record finishes in a row. To expect this every year is unrealistic. We are also safe, which was the only aim at the start of the season. It will be the only aim next season too.

Does it matter if we are stronger?
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Why can't we get stronger every year?

Burnley have managed it with some canny moves in the transfer market and a disciplined style of play.
After last seasons finish I would have expected us to progress again with the signings we made,as they were all upgrades on what we had.

I think a big thing for us was not signing anyone in the January window and not using the two Premier League loans available to us.

This has resulted in us persisting with players who are off form and playing players like Fraser out of position.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
We're not stronger. We won't get stronger every year - we're just off the back of four record finishes in a row. To expect this every year is unrealistic. We are also safe, which was the only aim at the start of the season. It will be the only aim next season too.

Does it matter if we are stronger?
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I think it would matter to Eddie, who is highly ambitious. I guess we have been spoilt each and every season for about 10 years now. So - of course it's a great achievement to stay in the Premier League - but it's frustrating and disappointing compared to our massive progress over the past few years.
 
fuzzydude said:
I think it would matter to Eddie, who is highly ambitious. I guess we have been spoilt each and every season for about 10 years now. So - of course it's a great achievement to stay in the Premier League - but it's frustrating and disappointing compared to our massive progress over the past few years.
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Are you really frustrated and disappointed at being comfortably mid table in the best league in the world ?
 
bigfatolly said:
Why can't we get stronger every year?

Burnley have managed it with some canny moves in the transfer market and a disciplined style of play.
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Because nobody gets stronger every year indefinitely. Burnley didn't - they got relegated and had to rebuild. They'll do worse next year than they did this year.

Prediction time: which team will Neil et al use as an example of how crap we are next year? My prediction is.. not Burnley. There will be another team out there that does well and acts as a shining example of how we should have done it - after the event of course.

Bonus round: which signings will someone else sign that prove how crap all of our players are? Bit more tricky this one - unless you also wait until after the event and pick from those that have done well of course.
 
Your strange fixation with me is back SDD. I don’t do either of those things unless people claim that it’s impossible for us to be better or sign better players...then I point out it is....and we should always strive to be better.

To go back to labouring my point...I’m not interested in league positions as they are a reflection on what other teams do, refs, luck etc. We had a team in our first year that had some, but not many great performances. We got 100m... we then produced a team that had far more great performances....we got 120m..... how many great 90 minutes have we had this year. How many really poor performances?

That’s going backwards. Teams that go backwards often do it because someone nicks their best assets. We have only lost one player we wanted to keep and had our best ever season afterwards. There is no excuse for having a strong team, losing nobody, getting another 120m and rarely turning in a decent 90 mins.

Hard to see if you are a die-hard I appreciate.
 
We have to spend to stay in the same spot , players are aging, players lose form and the transfer market is out of control .
Please people think about our first season in the PL . Many ,including me didn’t expect us to last more than one season. We are now entering our 4th . For that reason I find it very hard to use words like frustrated and disappointed in any larger framework than individual matches .
 
red_house said:
Are you really frustrated and disappointed at being comfortably mid table in the best league in the world ?
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Are you putting words into my mouth? Read my words, Red-House. I said its a great achievement. We are virtually safe, but I wouldn't say that we are "comfortably mid table". I also said that - compared to our progress in the past 5-10 years, this season has been disappointing. It's only an opinion, but I agree with Neil in this instance. Our form has been inconsistent and patchy, and to a large extent it's just not been a season typical of Bournemouth' style of the past few years.
 
I don’t get how people can see it is possible to both be constantly delighted with the fact we are actually in the Premier League but also be disappointed if we don’t play to the best of our abilities.

Long spell with Smith dropped to play Francis and then Steve Cook dropped to fit Smith back in. Trying to get Defoe into the side. Persisting with Ibe as a wide midfielder when he only plays well in a front three...having Lewis sat watching Arter and Surman not doing it for ages...persisting with an over ran two man midfield...

It’s been disjointed, stop start, never knowing best formation or personnel. Individuals getting worse than year before. None of that needed to happen and it’s why we have moved backwards.

I’m still ecstatic every day I wake up and think of us in the Premier League and eternally grateful to Eddie.

It’s not a black and white world.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Your strange fixation with me is back SDD. I don’t do either of those things unless people claim that it’s impossible for us to be better or sign better players...then I point out it is....and we should always strive to be better.

To go back to labouring my point...I’m not interested in league positions as they are a reflection on what other teams do, refs, luck etc. We had a team in our first year that had some, but not many great performances. We got 100m... we then produced a team that had far more great performances....we got 120m..... how many great 90 minutes have we had this year. How many really poor performances?

That’s going backwards. Teams that go backwards often do it because someone nicks their best assets. We have only lost one player we wanted to keep and had our best ever season afterwards. There is no excuse for having a strong team, losing nobody, getting another 120m and rarely turning in a decent 90 mins.

Hard to see if you are a die-hard I appreciate.
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Not a fixation but you're definitely fair game on this subject for a number of reasons.

You'd think nobody would ever get relegated given they all get £100 billion every year. We haven't been relegated yet and that, unfortunately, is our sole aim. I'm not particularly happy about that either (see any FA cup thread) but it is what it is.

Staying up is not going backwards. Teams, players and styles get worked out and have to adapt to stand still. Every PL champion has experienced this for the last, what? Ten years?

The main reason I'm picking on you is that you've absolutely slaughtered druss all year for comparing year on year yet here we are when it suits you it's a legit argument.
 
Let’s look at this from another angle . Swop this season’s performances and results with our first season in the Prem’s performances and results . After our incredible Championship season ....would anyone be talking about disappointments ...some AFBC fans are getting rather spoilt .
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Not a fixation but you're definitely fair game on this subject for a number of reasons.

You'd think nobody would ever get relegated given they all get £100 billion every year. We haven't been relegated yet and that, unfortunately, is our sole aim. I'm not particularly happy about that either (see any FA cup thread) but it is what it is.

Staying up is not going backwards. Teams, players and styles get worked out and have to adapt to stand still. Every PL champion has experienced this for the last, what? Ten years?

The main reason I'm picking on you is that you've absolutely slaughtered druss all year for comparing year on year yet here we are when it suits you it's a legit argument.
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I slaughtered Druss for comparing results from season to season despite huge changes of squads and swapping this years promoted teams with last years relegated teams.

I’ve lost count of the times I’ve said forget results.. look at the performances of the team and individuals. In your own squad. When you haven’t lost any players to last year.

I can’t make it simpler for you.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I don’t get how people can see it is possible to both be constantly delighted with the fact we are actually in the Premier League but also be disappointed if we don’t play to the best of our abilities.

Long spell with Smith dropped to play Francis and then Steve Cook dropped to fit Smith back in. Trying to get Defoe into the side. Persisting with Ibe as a wide midfielder when he only plays well in a front three...having Lewis sat watching Arter and Surman not doing it for ages...persisting with an over ran two man midfield...

It’s been disjointed, stop start, never knowing best formation or personnel. Individuals getting worse than year before. None of that needed to happen and it’s why we have moved backwards.

I’m still ecstatic every day I wake up and think of us in the Premier League and eternally grateful to Eddie.

It’s not a black and white world.
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People and, unbelievably managers aren't perfect.
Some of us accept that, you don't.
You say the same following every defeat Neil.
Transfer policy this, formation that, Harry Arter this, Andrew Surman that. Teams lose games, teams go through ups and downs.
Yeah this season hasn't been as good as the last 4, so what?
£120m a year or whatever, guarantees absolutely nothing. Ask WBA or Stoke fans as they've had many years of that money and plenty of turgid displays. Don't wobble at the the first slightly mediocre Premier League season. We did win 3-0 at Chelsea by the way.
£70m in wages last season, please don't expect wholesale changes this summer, it won't happen. We might go down next season, that happens in football too.
I don't expect progression, what is that for a team and club like us?

In September you were using Watford as a stick to beat us with, now Burnley because it suits.
Alex Pritchard was a world beater 6 games ago, hasn't had a an above average game since so haven't heard too much on that front.
Surely you can see why people get the hump with you?
 
I don’t see why anyone would have the hump with me because it’s a football fans message board, we are all decent people it seems, and we all have a shared love.

Anyway...

Comparing us to West Brom and Stoke but I’m not allowed to use Burnley. How does that work?

It’s simple. I think our squad is better than the performances and points total of this season. The 3-0 win you mention proves that rather than disproves that in my eyes.

I’m not saying we should finish higher and higher. I think we will never see anyone do the job Eddie did in football again for a long time. I think our very well paid players should perform to their potential more than they have done this season. I think Eddie also needs to adapt his thinking formation wise but never lose sight of his wonderful style.

I am fully aware that the alternative view is that we should be that thankful to be in this league we shouldn’t criticise anything...it’s just not my view. I do understand the logic of it and respect it though.
 
Oh and Alex Pritchard.... I have faith Eddie could do for him what he has done for other players. Francis was rejected by Charlton and Daniels trotting out for Orient and Eddie turned them into established Premier League players.

I think he would work well with Pritchards raw talent.

Don’t you?
 
Perhaps rather than the question "have we improved?" shouldn't we ask "have we evolved?"

The difference between the Championship and PL is quite vast.

To me we got promoted with quite an old team with many players who were not considered PL quality. The challenge is to gradually move to a younger team with more PL quality. I think we are on the right road but it's a longer term project however it should leave us stronger (provided we can keep hold of the players).
 
Neil Dawson said:
I slaughtered Druss for comparing results from season to season despite huge changes of squads and swapping this years promoted teams with last years relegated teams.

I’ve lost count of the times I’ve said forget results.. look at the performances of the team and individuals. In your own squad. When you haven’t lost any players to last year.

I can’t make it simpler for you.
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Far be it for me to argue druss' corner but my understanding of his point was that he didn't think we were doomed to relegation because we had had a tough run of games and that the year on year comparison of results showed us not far off after the equivalent fixtures. He appears to have been proved right.

Maybe you've not made it simple enough for me because all I'm seeing is you comparing our year on year performances despite huge changes in squads and swapping this year's promoted teams with last year's relegated teams.

Is this only allowable when you are using it to be negative about the manager, players, transfer policy, etc?

Personally I don't think you can forget results. Nobody is going to be congratulating us on our wonderful football if/when we go down.

He's facing a massive uphill battle every season with limited ability to attract players to the club. We can probably only afford incremental changes and he's got top level managers looking to exploit the side's tactical weaknesses every week. He's had to adapt our style whilst incorporate new blood into the side; whilst also making sure we still get enough points to give it another go next year. He's also got to keep increasingly talented and ambitious players happy despite not being able to pick them all and having no decent reserve games... and he's only gone and done it... again! If that means a few hard fought wins rather than our previous swashbuckling style then it's a small price to pay.

For the record - of course you are entitled to your view and there's no doubt an element of truth in it. We all (ok some of us) tend to become entrenched in our views to get a point across and personally I don't see any harm in that. It's all part of the debate.

Anyway, back to the argument :computer:
 
All fair points.

Year one I thought we played beyond our ability and potential.
Year two I thought we played to our potential.
This year I don’t think we have played to our potential.

There are many factors in this. A lot of which you have argued yourself particularly when we were shoehorning Franno in the side at the expense of Smith or Cook.

We beg to differ!
 
As a few others have said, King has been a disaster of a decision. Score 16 goals in less than a full season of starts. Court interest from top 6 clubs.

Get dropped and only occasionally started on the wing if at all.

Neil said teams regress when they have their best players taken away and I agree, but we did that to ourselves this year.

Then there's the Lewis Cook/Andrew Surman debacle. We could all see it coming 2 seasons ago. Surman is not the player we need in the PL. Took far too long to sort that problem.

Then there's Defoe. As much as I hoped he'd be a great signing for us and bang in the goals I always had a nagging doubt in my mind that he just wouldn't work out.

Rather than a constant evolution which we should have been nurturing to a greater extent the past 3 seasons, I worry we now require a fairly major revolution.

I feel like we're at a bit of a fork in the road where one route takes us to a big "bridge out" sign that we miss as we're re-tuning the radio and plunge to our fiery death!

For all the praise Eddie gets (and largely deserves) he seems to make some very silly and obvious mistakes that, being objective, he really should be held to task for a bit more than he does.
 
They're only mistakes if you don't agree.

Lewis Cook is benefitting from not pushing him too soon and allowing him to build some full season fitness...it's obvious if you agree! ;)

As for King, form dips and peaks. He could well rediscover his form, or he's had the Premier League equivalent of Josh McQuiod's purple patch.
 
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