Lloyd Kelly

Fans were booing the tactics rather than just Kelly though weren't they?.....turning and passing back every time he got the ball because Parker wanted to 'reset'......don't see him doing it under Andoni.

No definitely booing Kelly. One of lowest points was that dismal Burnley FA Cup defeat last season in pouring rain.

Fans clearly booing him, after he was just returning from injury.

Really embarrassing tbh (for the fans). Guess every fan base has bunch of idiots who behave like that (we're generally pretty tolerant compared to others I guess, but it was a low point imo. Perhaps as capacity is only around 200 people, and most fans have grey hair as virtually no new fans have been able to get in over the past decade or so.)
 
No definitely booing Kelly. One of lowest points was that dismal Burnley FA Cup defeat last season in pouring rain.

Fans clearly booing him, after he was just returning from injury.

Really embarrassing tbh (for the fans). Guess every fan base has bunch of idiots who behave like that (we're generally pretty tolerant compared to others I guess, but it was a low point imo.)
They weren't booing him because they didn't like his face.
 
They weren't booing him because they didn't like his face.

It had nothing to do with tactics... I'm certain of that.

He made mistake and they started booing him.

Doubt they thought lets home in on him due to tactics being deployed. And I doubt Kelly thought that either. He was made a scapegoat due to mistake (and never really being overly popular at any point with fanbase) and fans homing in on him as easy target as result.

Single players get booed because they're not overly popular with sections of fanbase and crap/making mistakes/perceived as not trying and results not going well (this Burnley game was during that awful string of defeats following the World Cup),

Otherwise everyone would have been booed, not just him. Which as we know, did happen in the Championship season before under Parker. That was down to overly 'pragmatic'/hand brake on' tactics and poor displays/results to very mediocre championship sides.
 
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It had nothing to do with tactics... I'm certain of that.

He made mistake and they started booing him.

Doubt they thought lets home in on him due to tactics being deployed. And I doubt Kelly thought that either. He was made a scapegoat due to mistake (and never really being overly popular at any point with fanbase) and fans homing in on him as easy target as result.

Single players get booed because they're not overly popular with sections of fanbase and crap/making mistakes/perceived as not trying and results not going well (this Burnley game was during that awful string of defeats following the World Cup),

Otherwise everyone would have been booed, not just him. Which as we know, did happen in the Championship season before under Parker. That was down to overly 'pragmatic'/hand brake on' tactics and poor displays/results to very mediocre championship sides.
I don't believe he was booed because he made a mistake....otherwise as you say a lot of players would get booed.
Unfortunately for Kelly he was the catalyst for a lot of the negative tactics.....receive the ball....stop...turn around play the ball back to Phillips....Phillips plays the ball back to Travers.....Travers plays the ball to Kelly.....stop turn....it was just Parkers weird obsession with removing any risk from football.
Has Kelly been booed since Parker buggered off?
 
That Burnley game he was booed because he's Lloyd Kelly. The whole team were awful first half and played of the pitch by Burnley. They were all roundly booed off at halftime.
Kelly only came on as a second half sub, we immediately looked much better we got a goal back and Lloyd hit the bar with a header. With plenty of time to go, instead of just lumping the ball forward he still tried to play it out from the back. This started some booing, which got louder each time, then he made a mistake they got a goal. There were 11 players first half and other subs "obeying orders" they didn't get booed as individuals.
It's pretty much what Philip is going through, if we're losing whilst he's on the pitch, it's his fault, regardless : )
 
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That Burnley game he was booed because he's Lloyd Kelly. The whole team were awful first half and played of the pitch by Burnley. They were all roundly booed off at halftime.
Kelly only came on as a second half sub, we immediately looked much better we got a goal back and Lloyd hit the bar with a header. With plenty of time to go, instead of just lumping the ball forward he still tried to play it out from the back. This started some booing, which got louder each time, then he made a mistake they got a goal. There were 11 players first half and other subs "obeying orders" they didn't get booed as individuals.
It's pretty much what Philip is going through, if we're losing whilst he's on the pitch, it's his fault, regardless : )
I felt sorry for lloyd as often he passed for Phil bill to begin an attack but Phil just passed back. Put him in a tough spot.

I would say though that Kelly’s distribution has improved a lot this season vs last
 
I felt sorry for lloyd as often he passed for Phil bill to begin an attack but Phil just passed back. Put him in a tough spot.

One of my real pet hates. They’re just not clever passes. A pass should advance the team. This can be backwards if it’s into space and develops a string of passes or a run to move forward. Passes to people with no options or hold a worse position than yourself shows, to coin a recent referenced phrase, a real lack of “football intelligence” at times.
 
'Southgate Soccer'...will filter down to Managers that are not too sure of themselves or their players...and you will get the ' passing back' passages of play...the cautious 'play for a point' practicioners..it's a disease of the turf at many clubs....the spirit of the old game has been bludgeoned to death by this man and his self- appointed disciples...the entertainment factor not part of any considerations....
...earlier in the season I thought that one such manager...Gary O'Neil ...had started to pull away from this abomination...(although i'm still grateful for how he kept us up with some great attacking performances in certain games in the critical period v Spurs, Liverpool, Leeds and Saints.)..but he has slipped back into some serious Southgatory meinkampf'ish, doomongerish doctrine....sadly.

Hopefully our current Messiah will not have to succumb to such banality by being denied the type of players needed to maintain his positive football style.

But...you never know in this game what sh*t is gonna go down...
....this is a bit of a rantburger I know....but it's what has crossed my mind whilst out on the moors this Savo ...and coming back to read some of this thread....has triggered the impulse to spout it forth...
 
'Southgate Soccer'...will filter down to Managers that are not too sure of themselves or their players...and you will get the ' passing back' passages of play...the cautious 'play for a point' practicioners..it's a disease of the turf at many clubs....the spirit of the old game has been bludgeoned to death by this man and his self- appointed disciples...the entertainment factor not part of any considerations....
...earlier in the season I thought that one such manager...Gary O'Neil ...had started to pull away from this abomination...(although i'm still grateful for how he kept us up with some great attacking performances in certain games in the critical period v Spurs, Liverpool, Leeds and Saints.)..but he has slipped back into some serious Southgatory meinkampf'ish, doomongerish doctrine....sadly.

Hopefully our current Messiah will not have to succumb to such banality by being denied the type of players needed to maintain his positive football style.

But...you never know in this game what sh*t is gonna go down...
....this is a bit of a rantburger I know....but it's what has crossed my mind whilst out on the moors this Savo ...and coming back to read some of this thread....has triggered the impulse to spout it forth...
Southgate is already the most successful England manager in my lifetime, he rarely gets any recognition for it though.
 
'Southgate Soccer'...will filter down to Managers that are not too sure of themselves or their players...and you will get the ' passing back' passages of play...the cautious 'play for a point' practicioners..it's a disease of the turf at many clubs....the spirit of the old game has been bludgeoned to death by this man and his self- appointed disciples...the entertainment factor not part of any considerations....
...earlier in the season I thought that one such manager...Gary O'Neil ...had started to pull away from this abomination...(although i'm still grateful for how he kept us up with some great attacking performances in certain games in the critical period v Spurs, Liverpool, Leeds and Saints.)..but he has slipped back into some serious Southgatory meinkampf'ish, doomongerish doctrine....sadly.

Hopefully our current Messiah will not have to succumb to such banality by being denied the type of players needed to maintain his positive football style.

But...you never know in this game what sh*t is gonna go down...
....this is a bit of a rantburger I know....but it's what has crossed my mind whilst out on the moors this Savo ...and coming back to read some of this thread....has triggered the impulse to spout it forth...
Southgate soccer will not work for club teams. It is not designed for club teams. Although it might work if there is some fixture congestion but I doubt it
 
If only it was like the old days when teams could just play it back to their goalkeeper, he would pick it up and then stand there for a minute until either throwing it back and repeating or sometimes just hoofing it down the pitch/out of play.

Sorry Brian, I don't understand how repeatedly watching teams do that when one up was better. It was boring to most of us.
 
Ramsay was before my time and none of the other three were more successful.
The other three have been equally as (un)successful as Southgate in that they've Won bugger - all.

Why reference "before my time"....like nothing happened because you were not born.
It's in the Nations blood and history that Ramsey won our only World Cup....which is almost a divine right due to our status as inventors of the game in the modern world ( not withstanding exuberant Chinese peasants in cone hats in the Ming period or before, kicking giant riceballs around the hillsides above the paddy fields during their green tea breaks!).
Football existed before the PL....clubs like Ipswich (under Ramsey) and Burnley ( Harry Potts) won the First Division Title ( equivalent to to PL). Tottenham , Wolves and others you might not know about also won it...before you ..or I...was born.
It's not all about Now...however modern England, Manu, MC, Arsenal, Afcb or Wrexham fans might assume it is !
 
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The other three have been equally as (un)successful as Southgate in that they've Won bugger - all.

Why reference "before my time"....like nothing happened because you were not born.
It's in the Nations blood and history that Ramsey won our only World Cup....which is almost a divine right due to our status as inventors of the game in the modern world ( not withstanding exuberant Chinese peasants in cone hats in the Ming period or before, kicking giant riceballs around the hillsides above the paddy fields during their green tea breaks!).
Football existed before the PL....clubs like Ipswich (under Ramsey) and Burnley ( Harry Potts) won the First Division Title ( equivalent to to PL). Tottenham , Wolves and others you might not know about also won it...before you ..or I...was born.
It's not all about Now...however modern England, Manu, MC, Arsenal, Afcb or Wrexham fans might assume it is !
Sir Alf was also a keen advocate of the tracksuit.
 
Southgate is already the most successful England manager in my lifetime, he rarely gets any recognition for it though.
I think Southgate has done a remarkable job for England, changing the culture, no embarrassing defeats at tournament after the low of Iceland. So I think he gets a lot of praise and recognition.

The “but” though is that he is a defensive coach that doesn’t always make the most of the attacking talent and, at times, he seems lacking tactically eg Italy euro final or Croatia World Cup. It’s fine margins at the top level of course. I also think he is too conservative re the teams he picks from for squad players. Seemed to be bolder initially

No doubt though he has been a great success for England.
 

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