Non - A literal witch hunt?

I know he is not the favourite guy among many on here, but in this instance I think you will agree that President Trump has got it right.

"President Trump on Monday signed into law a new federal ban on animal cruelty, called the Preventing Animal Cruelty and Torture Act.
The bipartisan bill, which passed the House and Senate earlier this year, will outlaw purposeful crushing, burning, drowning, suffocation, impalement or other violence causing “serious bodily injury” to animals. Violations could result in a fine and up to seven years’ imprisonment."
 
Toronto John said:
I know he is not the favourite guy among many on here, but in this instance I think you will agree that President Trump has got it right.

"President Trump on Monday signed into law a new federal ban on animal cruelty, called the Preventing Animal Cruelty and Torture Act.
The bipartisan bill, which passed the House and Senate earlier this year, will outlaw purposeful crushing, burning, drowning, suffocation, impalement or other violence causing “serious bodily injury” to animals. Violations could result in a fine and up to seven years’ imprisonment."
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Law of averages. He had to get something right. Its only taken 3 1/2 years.
 
The Flying Picket said:
This law does not apply to hunting and trapping. So Trump not gone all that far.
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True ... there are other exclusions as well, including research and of course food production. But a federal law "trumps" (bad pun) state laws, especially in situations which cross state lines. It has been shown that many who engage in animal cruelty escalate to violence against humans at a later stage. So, the President has gone much further than others before him ..... for which I give a :thumbup:
 
Toronto John said:
True ... there are other exclusions as well, including research and of course food production. But a federal law "trumps" (bad pun) state laws, especially in situations which cross state lines. It has been shown that many who engage in animal cruelty escalate to violence against humans at a later stage. So, the President has gone much further than others before him ..... for which I give a :thumbup:
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This one rather small act cannot outweigh Trump's thousands of lies, obfuscations and abuses of office. A thoroughly horrible, spiteful, vain and self-centred mysogenist, the man is a sociopath at best.

PS. Trump is not THE president. He is President of the US, not us.
 
ErikthViking said:
This one rather small act cannot outweigh Trump's thousands of lies, obfuscations and abuses of office. A thoroughly horrible, spiteful, vain and self-centred mysogenist, the man is a sociopath at best.
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These are your views and you have every right to them if you so choose. However, what is the connection with the subject, animal cruelty?

ErikthViking said:
PS. Trump is not THE president. He is President of the US, not us.
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Who is us, in the context of this international and politically varied forum? President is his title, in a similar vein we say "the Queen", not "the Queen of the Commonwealth"; "the Pope", not "the Pope of the Roman Catholics"; and "the Prime Minister" (which could apply in Canada or Britain).

We live in a divided world and there is often a knee-jerk reaction to many topics, Brexit, gun laws, climate and Islam come to mind. These divisions are exacerbated by the inability to recognize when someone/something you don't like does something good. I hold my hand up as being as guilty as the next man on that score, and I don't see it getting any better any time soon.
 
Toronto John said:
These are your views and you have every right to them if you so choose. However, what is the connection with the subject, animal cruelty?
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My views are in the second sentence, i.e. A thoroughly horrible, spiteful, vain and self-centred mysogenist, the man is a sociopath at best. I will find tens of millions of people in America who would agree with me and hundreds of millions around the world who would also do so.

The first sentence, however, is based on fact. Trump has told thousands of lies that have been fact checked. From the Washington Post, "Dec 16, 2019 - 10, his 1,055th day in office, Trump had made 15,413 false or misleading claims, according to the Fact Checker's database"

The connection between these 15,000 plus lies and misleading statements and animal welfare is that one small act does not outweigh the terrible harm that Trump has inflicted on democracy.
 
Toronto John said:
Who is us, in the context of this international and politically varied forum? President is his title, in a similar vein we say "the Queen", not "the Queen of the Commonwealth"; "the Pope", not "the Pope of the Roman Catholics"; and "the Prime Minister" (which could apply in Canada or Britain).
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Us, in this case is, everyone who is not a citizen of the United States. We (and for clarity's sake, this we is the same as the us in the first sentence) either do not have a president at all or we have our own. Therefore to refer to the president (again for clarity, I mean the orange fruitcake) is rather against the "context of this international and politically varied forum."
 
Toronto John said:
We live in a divided world and there is often a knee-jerk reaction to many topics, Brexit, gun laws, climate and Islam come to mind. These divisions are exacerbated by the inability to recognize when someone/something you don't like does something good.
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I am totally against knee-jerk reactions. There is plenty of evidence among my 10,000 posts, although I still think we should have had a refund for the Selhurst Park debacle.

The new law was nothing to do with Trump. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/25/us/politics/trump-animal-cruelty-bill.html

All Donald trump did was to sign it into law and attempt (as he often does) to gain credit for something that was not of his making. The law was a joint Republican-Democrat proposal that had already passed both houses and his veto wouldn't work anyway as it would pass with the two-thirds majority to over-ride the veto.* A good deed? Hardly.







*Yes, I have read the American constitution which is how I also know that the gun nuts and Trump are wrong when the bang on about "Second Amendment Rights."
 
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I will consolidate my response into 1 post and then say no more. I would much rather that we be at a concert together having a beer, and then discuss this at length.

Your post 1 - And, you will find almost 63 million people who voted for him.

As to facts, quoting the Washington Post, you might as well go all the way and quote CNN. Herein lies one of the problems of division ... I have come to the point where I cannot believe anything the media puts out. Spin, photoshop, context ... it has become all about politics, rarely about reporting. I say that for all sides. You can find media that say what you want to hear, but "facts"? Unlikely.

Your post 2 - Then maybe you should have used "me" rather than the presumptuous "us". Again, unless we qualify references to the Queen and the Pope, my reference is, I believe, correct. I did not say "your President".

Your post 3 - I suppose it is inaccurate to use the term knee-jerk in that my original post was nearly two months ago. What I meant was "polarised".

President Trump signed it into law .... that's what he does, he could have vetoed it.

As to gun laws, yeah I have read the Constitution as well. I think we agree. For me, guns have no useful place except for police and the military.

From my perspective, and again it's my opinion and I'll stick to it, you have the bombastic bullies on one side and the simpering sanctimoniuos on the other. Form an orderly queue and make your choice. But I will say that unless the Democrats can get their act together, which I sincerely doubt, I will wager "four more years", as revolting as that maybe to many.
 
Toronto John said:
And, you will find almost 63 million people who voted for him.

As to facts, quoting the Washington Post, you might as well go all the way and quote CNN. Herein lies one of the problems of division ... I have come to the point where I cannot believe anything the media puts out. Spin, photoshop, context ... it has become all about politics, rarely about reporting. I say that for all sides. You can find media that say what you want to hear, but "facts"? Unlikely.
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Trump received 62,984,825 votes.
Clinton gained 65,853,516

As a certain poster would say, FACT. https://transition.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2016/2016presgeresults.pdf

Franco, Mussolini, Hitler, Stalin, all the great [using great as in renowned, not to imply any greatness] totalitarian dictators used two propaganda weapons.

The first is to convince people that all sources of information, other than themselves are false. Everyone else is lying to you. In the case of the Liar-in-Chief, only Trump himself and sometimes Fox News [if every there were an oxymoron] are telling you the truth.

The second is propaganda. Fake news used to mean a story that isn't true. The man who can't even remember his own lies will have you believe that true stories are fake news. Tell a lie often enough and convincingly enough and people accept it.

So how many lies and inaccuracies has Trump issued?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veracity_of_statements_by_Donald_Trump

https://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/

https://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/

Strange that so many websites cite Donald Trump as a liar. He does it just about daily.

Honestly, who is so gullible that they fall for the propaganda of an enemy of democracy?

To finish with: https://www.factcheck.org/
 
ErikthViking said:
This one rather small act cannot outweigh Trump's thousands of lies, obfuscations and abuses of office. A thoroughly horrible, spiteful, vain and self-centred mysogenist, the man is a sociopath at best.

PS. Trump is not THE president. He is President of the US, not us.
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I'm actually a big Trump fan so don't agree with you but that's the beauty of politics
 
I said that I would say no more on President Trump, and I will stick to that.

But politicans that lie ....... c'mon, man, it's the nature of the job in this age. The Clintons turned it into a family business (i.e. lying, not politics). And if you start comparing politicians and the degree of lying (well, A was less of a liar than B), you will realize what a bad state we are in. (I won't presume to opine on policians and lying in the UK, that kind of comment gets me in trouble on here!)

Media lies .... again, do you really believe anything that CNN puts out? Follow the money, my friend ... look at who owns the network and you will immediately know for whom they are providing you with "fake news". CNN and Fox are as bad as each other. Same with print media. (As an aside, I have started watching PBS Newshour .... they seem refreshingly more balanced than most. Interviews with reps from both sides of the aisle, with tough but fair - i.e. not leading - questions).

"In war, truth is the first casualty". We are a world that is at war with itself ......... that war will probably kill us all one day.
 
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