Non - Afghanistan

..another bloodstained footprint left behind by the western powers (mainly USA and UK)...we have let down this country and its people massively and now we are turning our collective backs on them when things are not going to work out. The only hope is that The Taliban have somewhat moderated their behaviour towards its people and try to stabilise the country....but I fear that is a few miles down the line as the immediate retributions kick in and many are persecuted, executed and punished heavily for the recent past...

we ALL carry some guilt for these terrible situations and I feel sickened by what we are seeing on our TV screens it is wholeheartedly awful and cruel to the limits of evilness...
 
It's difficult to know exactly what's going on from here. No doubt there is an element of economics to it. But there's enough reports of Taliban and their newly turned local leaders going door to door tracking down or pointing out people who worked for Coalition forces, in order to deal out 'justice', to suggest it's very ugly. Quite apart from any amnesty or ceasefire. It'll probably get worse when the eyes of western media get bored and look elsewhere. Probably be a civil war in the north as well.

You can debate the rights and wrongs of continuing to station forces there to prop up a shaky government, to hold back the Taliban from urban areas (indefinitely?) or withdraw etc. But the way the withdrawal has been executed is a shambles, a disaster.

I suspect they'll have to pay the Taliban off to keep evacuation corridors open to the airport after the deadline. Added to all that shiny modern military hardware that the Taliban can now sell to China, Russia, Pakistan etc. Arms dealing is going to make a nice little sideline to their drugs business. Apart from the infantry gear of course, that they can use themselves to terrorise the populace. All paid for by US taxpayers.
 
and that prat Tony Blair keeps cropping up on the news like he is someone worth listening to. Almost as bad as having to listen to Prince Harry. Both of you are nobodies anymore , keep out he media!

Honestly he’s a nightmare. He’s had his time, I thought he was actually a very good prime minister but since covid he’s taken every opportunity to jump back into the limelight and give his 2p’s worth
 
Brave Women,
Women Braves,
Brave Girls..
Islamic SUFFRAGETTES in Waiting,
Stern looking Evil bearded B@stards,
Looking on ..staring at them in the street.

Back home.
Lady in Birmingham. ...anywhere...turns on ' The News'...paces around her furniture in anger...her Sophie's and Saskia's sat on the couch pensive and curious.." What's up Mummy ?”
Back there:..the Women.. Give Birth to Men!

Evil Bast@rds....but sadly ..f√ck...some of their Women buy that Ancient Sh*te Based Religious Doctrine ! - Women don't Matter Crap !
Seeing those Babies passed over a fence by their Mothers..to soldiers. ..I chucked my porridge on the floor...literally!
My missus..emerging from her bed.." What's up ?
" Something is ! "... Silence.

I'm f√cking ashamed of my 'gender ' !

.Do we need another Hiroshima or Nagasaki ?....personally f√cking NO...but..


.
 
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There is even a Tory Politician...in the South West...that doesn't believe that ..'in her c√nting wisdom' that Women shouldn't be ordained into the Church of England..f√ck ..f√ck ..f√ck..because of some sh*t that St 'twattin' Peter shoved onto the f√cking cyberstones and Church Walls ( ive deciphered the likes of such crap in this area and spoken to Vicars about it) and the effin Admin/ Monarchist Hier 'plonkin' archy of the day. and the Public...oh yes.. .bought that Sh*te ....
.. dunno...
 
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Sky

Aid and charity workers' security convoys to be replaced by Taliban

While many of the consequences of the Taliban's takeover were inevitable, the speed with which the group took power means they bear reporting.

Among those consequences is the "new way of working" being faced by aid and charity workers in the country.

Sam Mort, chief of communications at Unicef Afghanistan, pointed out the Afghan government used to provide a security convoy when staff went out on field missions, but that they will now be accompanied by the Taliban.

Ms Mort said the Taliban had "made it perfectly clear" that they want Unicef to stay, adding that there was "constructive" dialogue between the two.

Speaking from the Unicef office in the UN compound in Kabul, Ms Morton said: "I haven't left all week, since last Sunday in fact.

"But typically we would be out in the field, we would be visiting our programmes, we would be talking to the people that we're helping, we would be meeting partners, and that has started to happen in the last couple of days."

Asked how she will feel about going out, she said: "It's certainly a new experience.

"Previously when we went on field missions the government would give us a security convoy, and now that security convoy is going to be the Taliban.

"So that's a new way of working for us, but as I say we have constructive dialogue with them, we've worked with them for some time, so I think for everybody, for them and for us, it's just a new way of working and something that we will work out together."
 
..another bloodstained footprint left behind by the western powers (mainly USA and UK)...we have let down this country and its people massively and now we are turning our collective backs on them when things are not going to work out. The only hope is that The Taliban have somewhat moderated their behaviour towards its people and try to stabilise the country....but I fear that is a few miles down the line as the immediate retributions kick in and many are persecuted, executed and punished heavily for the recent past...

we ALL carry some guilt for these terrible situations and I feel sickened by what we are seeing on our TV screens it is wholeheartedly awful and cruel to the limits of evilness...
Let down the country? You can't stay there forever. It was our time to leave.

You can not help some people and the Afghan people have proved that no matter what we did, however much money was pumped into that country, they was beyond help.
 
This was from The Independent a few days a go and was an interesting read:
As a former soldier, this is how it feels to witness the fall of Afghanistan
Mike Crofts
Thu, 19 August 2021, 12:46 pm
During my two deployments in Afghanistan, I had the privilege to work closely with Afghan soldiers and interpreters, sharing dinner and stories with them each night, building trust before the next day’s operations. I was struck by two things; the charm and generosity of the people, and the soldiers’ hopes for their future.
Historians will question how the west managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, when they come to review the Afghanistan campaign that ran from 2001 to 2021. When I reflect on it, I will ask if those Afghan soldiers’ trust in me was misplaced.
I am not the only veteran who has questioned the legitimacy of an enduring military presence in Afghanistan, which has seen 457 British and over 2,400 US fatalities, not to mention hundreds of thousands of Afghan lives lost. Even 10 years ago, I saw firsthand the limitations in our approach. However, I was encouraged by the speed of positive change I saw in Helmand between my two tours in 2010 and 2013; the reduction of violence in the region, the bustling economy, new roads and infrastructure, successful health centres and schools. It appeared that the establishment and investment in Afghan-led forces was providing genuine security.
The rationale for Nato’s Afghan deployment has crept from the response to 9/11 and ridding the country of the Taliban to stabilisation, counter opium operations and stopping the country from being an extremist staging post. The strategy and focus of efforts fluctuated, flying in the face of conventional military principles which seek to establish a clear aim and purpose from the outset.
The scale of collapse after 20 years and the trillions of dollars spent in the country has been shocking. To many veterans, the blame lies at the feet of the two most recent US presidents: Donald Trump and Joe Biden. In 2018, Trump commenced negotiations with the Taliban without the presence of the Afghan government. Afghanistan is a country where signals and perceptions of power matter, amplified by the emphasis on tribal status. The visibility of unilateral negotiations between the Taliban and US served only to embolden the Taliban. In turn, Biden’s decision to pull out all 2,500 US soldiers removed the safety net which guaranteed support for the Afghan government. Both developments started toppling the dominos that have led to the current crisis.
We are seeing something more complex playing out than the Taliban simply storming the country. The interwoven tribal tapestry is potent, and the rapid advance of the Taliban suggests that they are being bolstered by tribal leaders in Afghanistan who have been playing both sides and waiting for their moment for two decades – the phrase “you have watches, but we have time” is a popular Afghan riposte to external interference. The mixture of power politics, economics and ensuring the safety of their tribes was a complexity that took Nato forces too long to comprehend.
Afghanistan is now entirely controlled by the Taliban, it never achieved this previously. As a veteran, this is a bitter pill to swallow, it feels as if we have handed the group of theocratic-fascists a stronger position than they had before 2001. There may be groups and tribes that start to counter Taliban control once the dust settles, such as Turkmen, Tajik and Hazara tribes, but this won’t be an Afghan National Security and Defence Force (ANSDF) shaped like a conventional western military; the US, UK and Nato troops and infrastructure have been withdrawn, so the “experiment” is over.
The immediate concern for Afghans who served alongside British forces is that a return of the Taliban will bring with it brutal recriminations against members of the population who helped western forces. The spectre of secret assassinations of Afghan judges, commanders, specialist soldiers and pilots in Kandahar and Jalalabad already looms large. Despite the positive public image that the Taliban are portraying now, we must beware the wolf in sheep’s clothing. I have been in contact with my interpreter from Afghanistan throughout the fall of the country. The speed of the advance has been terrifying. The west and the countries associated with the campaign have a responsibility to this man who risked his life repeatedly to support UK soldiers.
There are achievements veterans who served in Afghanistan can rightly be proud of, including facilitating girls’ access to education – in 2001, girls did not go to school, but by 2012, there were three million in school.
However, there is a growing sense of futility as we watch events unfold. The phrase “lions led by donkeys” has never been more apt watching the political mismanagement of this withdrawal. Having sacrificed so much, the US has abandoned Afghanistan for the sake of returning a small and low risk troop deployment for the sake of domestic US political signalling. I can’t speak for all veterans, but the indifference of UK political leaders is equally galling.
Internationally, we must mind the message that we send to other countries experiencing turbulence, whether in Nigeria, Yemen, Iraq or Syria. We cannot roam the world fixing its problems, but questions of Nato’s reliability undermine our attempts to challenge extremism internationally. Thousands of mainly young men will now forge a path to Britain and the USA for their families, both legally and illegally, over the coming years. We should remember that their migration is entirely of our making as they start to arrive on our shores seeking safe haven.
Veterans should rightly remain proud of our efforts. We gave Afghanistan the best chance of success that we could. The last stages were characterised by abject surrender, betraying the collective bravery and sacrifice since 2001. But there are many Afghan men and women who have flourished during the past 20 years. The coming uncertainty of the Taliban must be terrifying for many Afghans. I remain optimistic that those soldiers I served with 10 years ago, will feel hope once again.
Mike Crofts is a former British Army Captain who served two combat tours of Afghanistan. He is now the CEO of human performance









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..another bloodstained footprint left behind by the western powers (mainly USA and UK)...we have let down this country and its people massively and now we are turning our collective backs on them when things are not going to work out. The only hope is that The Taliban have somewhat moderated their behaviour towards its people and try to stabilise the country....but I fear that is a few miles down the line as the immediate retributions kick in and many are persecuted, executed and punished heavily for the recent past...

we ALL carry some guilt for these terrible situations and I feel sickened by what we are seeing on our TV screens it is wholeheartedly awful and cruel to the limits of evilness...

Well put together post Garbo..as usual from you...but bringing it all back to basics..and 'big historical picturewise woke '...the origins of all this and somewhat to blame...is the adherence of people in that part of the World ...to RELIGION....misplaced beliefs in ... 'Gods'..or 'Prophets' that Don't Deliver...to their emerging offspring...has to be said!

I'm not sure anyone in the West....wants to see the grief.. I'd like to join in with feeling some guilt'..but don't agree that I or you deserve to carry that emotion!
 
indeed, people being pulled out of their houses and shot and woman being imprisoned and raped
religious fundamentalism is truly awful

Just awful. What has happened with that MP who said people were weak for trying to get away? What a compassionate way for him to respond.
 
I suspect they'll have to pay the Taliban off to keep evacuation corridors open to the airport after the deadline. Added to all that shiny modern military hardware that the Taliban can now sell to China, Russia, Pakistan etc. Arms dealing is going to make a nice little sideline to their drugs business. Apart from the infantry gear of course, that they can use themselves to terrorise the populace. All paid for by US taxpayers.
To be fair the West already holds several billion dollars worth of Afghan assets which I guess technically belong to the Taliban. If we don’t pay up I wonder how long until they take a hostage like the Iranians have with Mrs Zachariah-Ratcliffe ?
 
Well put together post Garbo..as usual from you...but bringing it all back to basics..and 'big historical picturewise woke '...the origins of all this and somewhat to blame...is the adherence of people in that part of the World ...to RELIGION....misplaced beliefs in ... 'Gods'..or 'Prophets' that Don't Deliver...to their emerging offspring...has to be said!

I'm not sure anyone in the West....wants to see the grief.. I'd like to join in with feeling some guilt'..but don't agree that I or you deserve to carry that emotion!
How do you know there aren’t 72 virgins waiting on the other side Brian ?
 
Remember many years ago when Russia were in there and in the end they had to pull out.

Those fighting the Russians then were the Mujahideen well versed on the terrain and carried out a guerrilla war and hid up in the mountains/hills.

Remember seeing reports from their hideouts with TV reporter/s being up in the hills with them filming, it seemed they were the ‘good guys’.

When we went in and after what happened during Russia’s time there didn’t think it would ever end well.
 
Terrible for the folk in that country, especially the females who will now be completely subjugated, a real mess. This interview is worth listening to, Colonel Richard Kemp is a guest of Mark Levin. Stick with the start as a picture of El Trumpo appears but Richard Kemp gives an honest appraisal of the situation.

 
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