NON Bournemouth Pubs

beds cherry said:
Decimated at the top end of Wimborne Rd. Talbot, Hollies, H&J all gone. Couple of additions at the other end at least.
Click to expand...

Has the Talbot gone? It seems to have shut down for good dozens of times over the years. Shut now of course but was open before the pandemic albeit under threat of having its licence revoked due to "a series of violent incidents and significant disorder”
 
I just hope that the new breed of micropub survives this interminable lockdown.
They were transforming the landscape of drinking choice with at least a dozen new pubs or so in the BCP area and a couple in Wimborne. Good choice of beers, great places for conversation, friendly, knowledgeable owners and no overbearing "music". Hopefully with their smaller premises and lower overheads they will survive.
Likewise with the new small breweries. Difficult times when they are all up against the supermarkets who can use alcohol sales as loss leaders. Unfortunately our politicians have done virtually nothing for these small businesses compared to the big pub chains that sell food and benefit from the 5% VAT rate and Eat Out to Help Out schemes.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Has the Talbot gone? It seems to have shut down for good dozens of times over the years. Shut now of course but was open before the pandemic albeit under threat of having its licence revoked due to "a series of violent incidents and significant disorder”
Click to expand...
It was open around xmas time, noticed how quiet it was when I walked down to the Micro Moose and Silverback.
 
redharry said:
I just hope that the new breed of micropub survives this interminable lockdown.
They were transforming the landscape of drinking choice with at least a dozen new pubs or so in the BCP area and a couple in Wimborne. Good choice of beers, great places for conversation, friendly, knowledgeable owners and no overbearing "music". Hopefully with their smaller premises and lower overheads they will survive.
Likewise with the new small breweries. Difficult times when they are all up against the supermarkets who can use alcohol sales as loss leaders. Unfortunately our politicians have done virtually nothing for these small businesses compared to the big pub chains that sell food and benefit from the 5% VAT rate and Eat Out to Help Out schemes.
Click to expand...

I'm quite hopeful for them because I think the custom will still be there, and willing to pay a good price for a pint. There's a big oversupply of shops in these locations so not so much upward pressure on rents, which in turn should keep their business rates low. In fact the majority of independents won't have a rates bill as they will be below the threshold.

It's a massive shame when we lose pubs in big traditional old buildings, like the Portman, but these micropubs have been a bright spot in a struggling market.
 
Kenya Cherrie said:
So why did all these pubs close down?
Click to expand...
Many reasons. The closures started back in the 70's. There were almost certainly too many poorly run pubs and they died a death with customers going elsewhere.
Peoples drinking habits changed with supermarkets selling cheap booze, the after work drink and lunchtime office drinking culture changed about 20 years back. Ever increasing taxation drove the cost of a pint ever upwards - way above inflation rates. High business rates. The smoking ban alienated many and they switched to drinking at home, the drink drive laws put many off, the continuing hectoring of the anti drink health lobby and the ritual of reducing the "safe" level of alcohol every few years.
The turning of pubs into food based establishments ousted traditional drinkers. The advent of TV streaming and services like NetFlix encourage a stay at home culture.
The rising value of property has enabled pub companies to make huge profits from selling pubs off to builders and developers with no regard for the local customers. There have been countless numbers of the "old" traditional large pubs sold for housing in the last few years. see posts above for pubs like Hollies, Horse and Jockey, Sea View, Strouden Park, Ensbury Park, Portman etc etc
some of us do our best but i can't keep them all going !!!!!!!
 
redharry said:
Many reasons. The closures started back in the 70's. !
Click to expand...

All of the above.

Plus
- the nature of the tied house
- the pub companies
- brewery amalgamations.

Many pubs' landlords and managers having to purchase at rates well above the standard wholesale rate because they were tied to a particular brewery. I know of a manager in Norwich who was paying up to £100 more per barrel for the same beer as a free house was buying it in for from a wholesaler. Guess who had to pay for that price difference?

The big pub companies distorted the markets in various ways for years. Governments kept changing the rules, so that heavily leveraged corporations controlled far too much of the market. Guess who had to pay for the interest payments on the loans?

Brewery mergers and takeovers didn't help. The big brewers sold out to each other, reduced beer choice and raised prices in pubs that became sanitised dispensers of too cold and too fizzy lager to vertical drinkers.
 
ErikthViking said:
All of the above.

Plus
- the nature of the tied house
- the pub companies
- brewery amalgamations.

Many pubs' landlords and managers having to purchase at rates well above the standard wholesale rate because they were tied to a particular brewery. I know of a manager in Norwich who was paying up to £100 more per barrel for the same beer as a free house was buying it in for from a wholesaler. Guess who had to pay for that price difference?

The big pub companies distorted the markets in various ways for years. Governments kept changing the rules, so that heavily leveraged corporations controlled far too much of the market. Guess who had to pay for the interest payments on the loans?

Brewery mergers and takeovers didn't help. The big brewers sold out to each other, reduced beer choice and raised prices in pubs that became sanitised dispensers of too cold and too fizzy lager to vertical drinkers.
Click to expand...
Agreed, I think the new pub companies that formed when the Beer Orders Act came into force in 1989 were particularly destructive. The intention was good - stop large companies (the Big 6 breweries) having monopolies on a national basis . But the unintended consequence was that the Big 6 breweries divested large chunks of their pub estate to new pub companies that had no tie to a brewery. The pub companies were not always interested in running the pubs, charged punitive rents to landlords and disposed of many of the pubs - and lo and behold they often did supply deals with the brewery that sold them off.
The situation has been remedied in recent years somewhat but there have been a spate of takeovers recently - Fullers, Marstons etc.
Thankfully the free enterprise culture and reduced beer duty thresholds for small breweries has enabled many start up breweries to flourish (pre Covid). Hopefully many will survive. I know the local Wimborne brewery Eight Arch has been riding the storm and funnily enough has been exporting very well to the EU..........Sells a damn good pint too.
 
redharry said:
I know the local Wimborne brewery Eight Arch has been riding the storm and funnily enough has been exporting very well to the EU..........Sells a damn good pint too.
Click to expand...

Dainty is a gorgeous beer, one of my (current) favourites. Crap name though!
 
redharry said:
I know the local Wimborne brewery Eight Arch has been riding the storm and funnily enough has been exporting very well to the EU..........Sells a damn good pint too.
Click to expand...

That's interesting to know.
Have you spoken to them post Brexit?

Having just been quoted £22 extra tax on top of cost for 1040 tea bags, I would be keen to find out if they are delivering to France for a reasonable price.
 
AlGard said:
That's interesting to know.
Have you spoken to them post Brexit?

Having just been quoted £22 extra tax on top of cost for 1040 tea bags, I would be keen to find out if they are delivering to France for a reasonable price.
Click to expand...
The guy lives down the road from me. Spoke to him just a couple of weeks ago when he dropped some beer off and I am pretty sure he said they were doing some good business to Italy. Didn't say whether it was more expensive or difficult since Brexit.
Might be worth dropping him an email, he is a helpful guy and he may be able to help.
https://www.8archbrewing.co.uk/
 
redharry said:
The guy lives down the road from me. Spoke to him just a couple of weeks ago when he dropped some beer off and I am pretty sure he said they were doing some good business to Italy. Didn't say whether it was more expensive or difficult since Brexit.
Might be worth dropping him an email, he is a helpful guy and he may be able to help.
https://www.8archbrewing.co.uk/
Click to expand...

Thanks. I will be in touch shortly.
 
ErikthViking said:
You are right!

It closed, re-opened as The Shopper's Pub or something silly like that and then closed again.

I had no idea that it had yet another new life, especially since the Library opened as a Wetherspoons.

PS. Way, way back the landlord's son was in my year at school.
Click to expand...
I was pretty sure I was at the foundry Xmas eve, but it was a bloody good night so couldn't say for sure. :guiness::guiness::guiness:
 
redharry said:
Many reasons. The closures started back in the 70's. There were almost certainly too many poorly run pubs and they died a death with customers going elsewhere.
Peoples drinking habits changed with supermarkets selling cheap booze, the after work drink and lunchtime office drinking culture changed about 20 years back. Ever increasing taxation drove the cost of a pint ever upwards - way above inflation rates. High business rates. The smoking ban alienated many and they switched to drinking at home, the drink drive laws put many off, the continuing hectoring of the anti drink health lobby and the ritual of reducing the "safe" level of alcohol every few years.
The turning of pubs into food based establishments ousted traditional drinkers. The advent of TV streaming and services like NetFlix encourage a stay at home culture.
The rising value of property has enabled pub companies to make huge profits from selling pubs off to builders and developers with no regard for the local customers. There have been countless numbers of the "old" traditional large pubs sold for housing in the last few years. see posts above for pubs like Hollies, Horse and Jockey, Sea View, Strouden Park, Ensbury Park, Portman etc etc
some of us do our best but i can't keep them all going !!!!!!!
Click to expand...
That's a very interesting analysis of how society has changed. I think you could add to the list the decline of manual labour.

Back in the 70s, there were millions employed in mining, the docks, metal-bashing, etc. That meant a lot of very thirsty blokes at the end of every shift. But those industries have largely disappeared from the national landscape.

I worked in the London pub trade in the 1980s, mostly in East London, and there was a pub on just about every corner, but they were in steep decline, largely as a result of the closure of the docks.

Can you imagine how busy the pubs would have been on payday around any of the huge car factories in the Midlands ?

All gone now...
 
  • Like
Reactions: rgb
Re- Red Harry's point about government treatment of small pubs and breweries.

1st, form a trade group such as Brewers Or Licenced Landlords Organised Collective to Keep Serving.
2nd, become a Tory donor.
3rd, make sure the chairman of B.O.L.L.O.C.K.S. is a friend of a Cabinet minister.

Then if the donation is big enough and the "friendship" strong enough, their case will be considered important enough. ( who knows, could even be a bonus contract related to Vaccine passports thrown in ) : )
 
davidwhitehead said:
That's a very interesting analysis of how society has changed. I think you could add to the list the decline of manual labour.

Back in the 70s, there were millions employed in mining, the docks, metal-bashing, etc. That meant a lot of very thirsty blokes at the end of every shift. But those industries have largely disappeared from the national landscape.

I worked in the London pub trade in the 1980s, mostly in East London, and there was a pub on just about every corner, but they were in steep decline, largely as a result of the closure of the docks.

Can you imagine how busy the pubs would have been on payday around any of the huge car factories in the Midlands ?

All gone now...
Click to expand...
Just started reading a book celebrating 50 years of the Campaign For Real Ale and the initial pages talk about the exodus from factory or pit to the pub at knocking off time and the routine of 4 or 5 pints of beer to "lay the dust". I dread to think where we would be in this country for choice of beer and breweries without CAMRA. Back in the early 70's it was Watneys Red Barrel, Double Diamond and Whitbread Tankard.......................................:eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;