NON Bournemouth Pubs

I think people are overstating the impact of CAMRA. It was the craft ale boom that boosted the popularity of ale as opposed to lagers. CAMRA was around for years when ale was losing popularity.

https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2...e-uks-beer-market-has-changed-in-eight-years/
I disagree. Without CAMRA there would have no been no craft ale boom. Without CAMRA there would have been virtually no ale at all and we would probably have about 30 breweries in this country instead of over 2000. The so called "craft" ale boom is a direct offshoot of CAMRA, and the growth of micro breweries from the late 1980's onwards (think Ringwood which started in a small industrial unit) and has been embraced and encouraged by CAMRA.
The chart you show reflects the number of registered brands i.e beer names which reflects the sheer number of different beers brewed by micro breweries. What it does not show is the volume of beer produced which is still declining. https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/09/summer-beer-sales-in-pubs-have-almost-halved-since-2000/
The other thing that needs to be mentioned is what is craft ale. Some of the biggest sellers of craft are actually big brewers or small outfits that have sold out to big brewers. Revered craft brewers such as Camden, Meantime, Beavertown, Brooklyn have all sold substantial chunks of their business to world wide brewers such as Carlsberg, Asahi, Budweiser etc.
While other top selling craft brands such as Shipyard, Blue Moon, East Coast IPA etc are brewed by large breweries such as Marstons and Coors but labelled as craft. The big brewers have spotted a potential competitor and have moved to grab their chunk and exert their control over it.
I am not knocking craft but like all things it is not as simple as it may seem.
 
Last edited:
I disagree. Without CAMRA there would have no been no craft ale boom. Without CAMRA there would have been virtually no ale at all and we would probably have about 30 breweries in this country instead of over 2000. The so called "craft" ale boom is a direct offshoot of CAMRA, and the growth of micro breweries from the late 1980's onwards (think Ringwood which started in a small industrial unit) and has been embraced and encouraged by CAMRA.
The chart you show reflects the number of registered brands i.e beer names which reflects the sheer number of different beers brewed by micro breweries. What it does not show is the volume of beer produced which is still declining. https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/09/summer-beer-sales-in-pubs-have-almost-halved-since-2000/
Don't bite Harry, it's just Derek looking for an argument in anything again!
 
I disagree. Without CAMRA there would have no been no craft ale boom. Without CAMRA there would have been virtually no ale at all and we would probably have about 30 breweries in this country instead of over 2000. The so called "craft" ale boom is a direct offshoot of CAMRA, and the growth of micro breweries from the late 1980's onwards (think Ringwood which started in a small industrial unit) and has been embraced and encouraged by CAMRA.
The chart you show reflects the number of registered brands i.e beer names which reflects the sheer number of different beers brewed by micro breweries. What it does not show is the volume of beer produced which is still declining. https://www.thedrinksbusiness.com/2019/09/summer-beer-sales-in-pubs-have-almost-halved-since-2000/
The other thing that needs to be mentioned is what is craft ale. Some of the biggest sellers of craft are actually big brewers or small outfits that have sold out to big brewers. Revered craft brewers such as Camden, Meantime, Beavertown, Brooklyn have all sold substantial chunks of their business to world wide brewers such as Carlsberg, Asahi, Budweiser etc.
While other top selling craft brands such as Shipyard, Blue Moon, East Coast IPA etc are brewed by large breweries such as Marstons and Coors but labelled as craft. The big brewers have spotted a potential competitor and have moved to grab their chunk and exert their control over it.
I am not knocking craft but like all things it is not as simple as it may seem.
I don't disagree with most of this but ultimately it was a change in people's tastes which led to a boom in ale drinking, craft or otherwise. It was a boom in cider ten years previous. That change in taste was not due to anything CAMRA did.
 
Did you organise the lockins at the Old Globe?
No, but I knew the bloke that did !

I worked out of the old Albion brewery in Whitechapel, just next door to the Blind Beggar, and a bit further up the road was the Grave Maurice, which used to be the Kray's favoured pub.

Plenty of interesting characters around in the East End back in those days.
 
I don't disagree with most of this but ultimately it was a change in people's tastes which led to a boom in ale drinking, craft or otherwise. It was a boom in cider ten years previous. That change in taste was not due to anything CAMRA did.
Of course it was due in great part to CAMRA. Without CAMRA there would not have been breweries left to brew any tasty ale, without that ale on the bar people would not have had the choice to decide whether or not they liked it. CAMRA pioneered the concept of beer festivals in this country where people could sample beers from all over the country. They campaigned locally and nationally for things such as excise duty relief which helped smaller brewers to start up and survive against the big boys. They basically started a consumer movement for choice, one which has been described as Europes most influential. I agree that craft has become trendy and popular - whether CAMRA did that or not I don't know but without the seeds they sowed and the culture of choice and quality they espoused those small breweries almost certainly would not exist.
Re your point on Cider, I assume you are talking about stuff like Magners, and other flavoured ciders. Sure they became popular but primarily as a result of massive TV advertising campaigns by big brewers. All the big cider names are made by multi nationals with huge budgets.
When I need a reality check I pick up my copy of the 1975 Good Beer Guide and compare it to this years, my how it has changed for the better - craft or non craft. I actually dislike the term craft, its all beer, some better than others.
 
D

Deleted member 754

Guest
my opinion, for what its worth. the micropub & craft beer revolution came about despite camra - they are an old fashioned organisation that didnt know how to cope with the change, and still don't
 
Of course it was due in great part to CAMRA. Without CAMRA there would not have been breweries left to brew any tasty ale, without that ale on the bar people would not have had the choice to decide whether or not they liked it. CAMRA pioneered the concept of beer festivals in this country where people could sample beers from all over the country. They campaigned locally and nationally for things such as excise duty relief which helped smaller brewers to start up and survive against the big boys. They basically started a consumer movement for choice, one which has been described as Europes most influential. I agree that craft has become trendy and popular - whether CAMRA did that or not I don't know but without the seeds they sowed and the culture of choice and quality they espoused those small breweries almost certainly would not exist.
Re your point on Cider, I assume you are talking about stuff like Magners, and other flavoured ciders. Sure they became popular but primarily as a result of massive TV advertising campaigns by big brewers. All the big cider names are made by multi nationals with huge budgets.
When I need a reality check I pick up my copy of the 1975 Good Beer Guide and compare it to this years, my how it has changed for the better - craft or non craft. I actually dislike the term craft, its all beer, some better than others.
It's just changing tastes, which has always occurred in the drinks industry. CAMRA was around during the lager boom. There's been surges in popularity of all types of booze over the years wine, lager, cider, gin, whisky, etc. etc. All for different reasons but ultimately its down to what is fashionable at any given time.
 

rgb

Star Player
I don't disagree with most of this but ultimately it was a change in people's tastes which led to a boom in ale drinking, craft or otherwise. It was a boom in cider ten years previous. That change in taste was not due to anything CAMRA did.
Strictly speaking, that stuff wasn't cider.
Cider is made from 100% apple juice, that has been fermented. However due to lobbying by the pasteurised-alcohol and purveyors of muck industry, it's possible to sell a beverage containing 15% apple juice and 85% ethanol, as cider.
This isn't cider, it's a sweet, fizzy and very chilled liquid masquerading as a hipster drink. It is of course, very cheap to produce and thus manufactured in bulk.
 
Strictly speaking, that stuff wasn't cider.
Cider is made from 100% apple juice, that has been fermented. However due to lobbying by the pasteurised-alcohol and purveyors of muck industry, it's possible to sell a beverage containing 15% apple juice and 85% ethanol, as cider.
This isn't cider, it's a sweet, fizzy and very chilled liquid masquerading as a hipster drink. It is of course, very cheap to produce and thus manufactured in bulk.
I wouldn't know. I've not touched any type of cider since I was about 14 years old.