Non - Brexit

Why would companies ( other than those owned by Euro countries ) leave? But anyway, we have lost many manufacturing companies whilst we are in the EU, so I expect we would evolve as a Country, with jobs being lost and being created, just as we have in the last 40 odd years since we joined.
 
Tinpot Club - 10/2/2016 11:23

I'd vote to stay regardless of any "deal". The EU does need reform, particularly on its economic policies favouring big business.

However, as a moderating influence on extremes of Tory ideology it still plays an important role.
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This.
Workers in particular will lose a lot of the protection that comes out of being in the EU, protection that the Tories would love nothing better than to strip away overnight.
Reform also needed on the benefits issue - unless this is sorted properly, then I fear the UK will end up voting to leave.
 
Jim_AFCB - 10/2/2016 20:22

Tinpot Club - 10/2/2016 11:23

I'd vote to stay regardless of any "deal". The EU does need reform, particularly on its economic policies favouring big business.

However, as a moderating influence on extremes of Tory ideology it still plays an important role.
Click to expand...

This.
Workers in particular will lose a lot of the protection that comes out of being in the EU, protection that the Tories would love nothing better than to strip away overnight.
Reform also needed on the benefits issue - unless this is sorted properly, then I fear the UK will end up voting to leave.
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I'm really suprised this is one of the main concerns for people regarding brexit .

1: we have an electoral system whenever a party gets too big for their boots weather right or left the voters chuck them out out of office .we've been doing so for hundreds of years and have done far better job of keeping our politics moderate than the majority of our European neighbors.
2: The Tories and big business are desperate to stay in the EU .They were forced into offering a referendum when it seemed like a good gamble to defang UKIP before the general election .If it's only the EU stopping them from sending kids back up chimneys why the farcical scenes of The Prime Minister running around Europe with cap in hand practically begging for something to take back to the voters to stop us from voting out.

This is far bigger than party politics guys .

We need to get out .
 
I do agree with the fact that Brexit is a different matter than simple party politics. As a voter, I feel the issues that are important to me personally would be better served by remaining in the EU. That is regardless of whether the right or left (there are calls to exit EU from both sides of the political spectrum) are in power in the UK.
 
AFCB Lost in Brum - 10/2/2016 16:17

tednphil - 10/2/2016 10:45
Well this site is mainly read by those of a 'left wing' viewpoint so it will be interesting to see the thoughts here....
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As with many political matters, in or out of the EU is not a left or right wing issue.
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Completely agree. It is a massive decision for the UK population and each and every voter will hopefully be able to take an informed choice. And yet.....on this forum, the socialist mafia just can't help themselves and revert to type where all of the problems in the UK, Europe and the wider world are all the fault of Cameron, Osborne and the nasty Tories. And because people may have a different perspective to their views the default name-calling has already begun. What actually is a little Englander? Pathetic and lazy points of discussion .

I thoroughly enjoy exploring Europe; Italy and Croatia in particular are fantastic, but as a single functioning unit Europe is an utter shambles. 27 different countries with different thoughts and methods shoe-horned together cannot work in the long term.

I will be voting to leave the EU as I have had enough of European judges overruling our own judicial process and forcing us to give a home to known terrorists instead of deportation; I think the Common Agricultural Policy is a grotesque mechanism to pay French and German farmers money for nothing and should have been scrapped years ago, but this will never happen; We will never have control of immigration so long as we are part of the EU. Anyone in Europe can freely move here and I think (happy to be corrected) our net migration last year was something in excess of 300,000. We don't have enough housing for the current population, the NHS is already at breaking point, our schools are hugely over-subscribed. The UK is a popular destination but what do you think will happen to our services as more people are squeezed into this already crowded island?

If we vote out I think there will be huge implications for the UK. Sturgeon and Salmond will soon start bumping their gums again for Scottish independence and maybe this could be a good time to re-assess the whole idea of a UK. I would quite like the 50 million English people to have a say in it this time.
 
Tinpot Club - 10/2/2016 22:32

I do agree with the fact that Brexit is a different matter than simple party politics. As a voter, I feel the issues that are important to me personally would be better served by remaining in the EU. That is regardless of whether the right or left (there are calls to exit EU from both sides of the political spectrum) are in power in the UK.
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What are those issues Tinpot if you don't mind me asking ?
Because on this thread I'm hearing a lot of "well what if " kind of statements from those that want to remain but very little "this is why it's beneficial for the Uk to remain " .
 
My guess is if the vote is out, trade will be uneffected as we will do as Norway do and pay to be part of the EEA/EFTA.

I honestly don't know where I stand, probably slightly more towards out.

If it was all laid out for us about how all the issues would be solved people could actually make an educated decision, rather than the right wing just wanting to stop muslims coming into the country.

My opinion is we need the likes of the Polish if you want certain luxuries such as 24 hour supermarkets. Tesco have set wages, they pay the same regardless of nationality and the Polish are willing to do the night shifts whilst the vast majority of English needing a job are happy to sign on and complain about people taking their jobs.
 
Tesco are dropping 24 hour supermarkets pretty soon. Nothing to do with a lack of staff ( British or otherwise ) but a lack of custom. I don't know if that is all the UK or there will be certain stores left as 24 hour, maybe in London. Certainly any time I have been out at stupid o'clock and gone to the Bournemouth or Yeovil Tesco, customers have been very few and far. Also as a fyi, Shaftesbury Tesco has no Polish on its night team at present, at no time since it opened having more than 2 out of the 20 plus staff. Also, having worked at three establishments where the majority of staff are from other Countries, I am fed up of hearing " hard working migrants " being quoted. In my experience there are hard workers, but also the same percentage of shirkers ( as British workers ) in the Migrant community as well.
 
Certainly wasn't like that 10 years ago when I worked at Tesco. We bummed around, they put it right over night! Granted it's easier over night as there aren't many customers taking things off the shelves amd I was younger and wasn't exactly motivated to stack shelves.
 
wallmth - 10/2/2016 22:20
...This is far bigger than party politics guys.
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This



Tinpot Club - 10/2/2016 11:23
...as a moderating influence on extremes of Tory ideology it still plays an important role.
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The EU is far more dangerous than the Tories. If we stay in they'll take as carte blanche to do what they want.

Look at the 'concessions' Cameron has negotia... sorry, begged for. They are all completely meaningless because the federalists won't budge.

We need to get out and should only go back in when they have actually reformed - show me evidence you got your house in order then I'll join you, not the other way around.


 
the default name-calling has already begun.....

the socialist mafia
Sturgeon and Salmond will soon start bumping their gums again

If a non uk producer of lager did irony....

The known unknowns seem as many as ever, if uk politicians cant manage the NHS, housing, schools demand v supply is it time to offshore ukplc democracy ?
Did the EU create the shortages of teachers, doctors and nurses ?
Will the residents of Costa del Crime be repatriated to Sandbanks ?
Will medical insurance be needed for away trips in the Europa and Champions League matches ?
Would it all be best sorted by a penalty shoot out ?

Don't need to go as far as Brussels to have public funds spent wisely...
Tom Rennie has been hired as a temporary 'transition' director to oversee the transfer of services back from Kier Group - formerly Mouchel - to the council, but his pay has been branded 'obscene'.
The agency worker is set to cost Bournemouth council £153,000 across nine months after the borough agreed to a £900-a-day contract.

• Councillors back first council tax rise for six years

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/14269074.Meet_Bournemouth_council_s_new__transition__director___guess_how_much_he_s_being_paid_/


 
Things I like about the EU:

- Trade
- Free movement (although I don't agree with the policy it is convenient for me personally)

Things I don't like about the EU:

- Bureaucracy and unnecessary regulations
- EU propaganda plaques everywhere
- Energy policies
- Free movement and migrant policies
- Lack of democracy (EU parliament is something like 40% euro skeptic, yet they have no power whatsoever)
- Compulsory VAT on ALL consumer products
- Excessive grants for projects that nobody wants or needs
- Redistribution of wealth
- Trade outside EU
- Euro (Greece bankruptcy and Germany's ability to export for 20% cheaper than they should be able to)
- Wasted grants (i.e. for failing businesses and places of employment in secluded areas where unemployment rate is low.. not that I have a problem with this except the grant is for renovation or expansion when they have no business and go bankrupt shortly afterwards.. unless they get another grant).
- most importantly... lack of sovereignty at state level
- ... and probably many more

Living in an EU country, a Brexit will most likely complicate my life, but I just don't see how this can return to being something that is good for Britain's future.
 
The sad fact is that the vast bulk of the population are uninformed or misinformed and that will not change prior to the referendum vote.

Most people when they vote will do so without any real appreciation of the facts and the risks. It will be a gut reaction.

My strong view is that there will be an "out" vote because, in the end, the undecided middle will say "meh, sod it... let's stick two fingers up and see what happens". In the past that same group would perhaps have stuck with the perceived "safer" vote of following the government line which will no doubt be recommending we stay (the view that will be supported by "big business")

You might say that people nowadays are far more likely to vote contrary to the recommendations of their own government. This appears to be driven by distrust of government / institutions and a belief that government is beholden to "big business" which is of itself somehow conspiring to leg over the common man.

It's an incendiary thing to say, but the likelihood of a person voting to stay in the EU, increases in line with their level of education...

But, ironically, the current position is so complicated, and the post-BREXIT position is so uncertain, that the educated have no right to claim superiority as they might prove to be completely and utterly wrong.

So, rather bizarrely, despite my head saying yes (and despite being over-educated), I'm probably going with my gut that says "meh, sod it, let's stick two fingers up and see what happens".

As for what happens, the effect on the UK financial services industry is the crucial part. If the UK cannot continue to access EU markets in the same way, we're screwed - some very, very large employers will have little choice but to leave. But I think that's unlikely. It's often forgotten that the UK is a vital export market for Germany - we are the world's second largest net importer of German products. They get €40bn out of us every year, second only to the US €46bn and well ahead of France at €33bn. It's in Germany's interests to keep a strong trading relationship and our price will be an agreement to maintain current arrangements applicable to our financial services industry.



 
Standent - 11/2/2016 10:39

It's an incendiary thing to say, but the likelihood of a person voting to stay in the EU, increases in line with their level of education...
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I don't agree, but not for the obvious reason.

Quite a few of the posts above that lean towards a 'leave vote' (or whatever the choice in the ballot will be) are well informed.

I would suggest that, the more people study the EU in depth, the more is the clamour for reform. But true reform is not allowed, we are are only being given a binary in/out choice.


 
Could be an interesting documentary if it comes out.
http://uk.ask.com/youtube?q=brexit+the+movie&v=BKDPK1Grqr0&qsrc=472&qo=homepageSearchBox
 
It seems to me that there are three arguments.

ECONOMICALLY, we may be better off to stay in, as we have a large export market for our manufacturers.
JUDICIALLY, we don't like Europe overriding our laws and judicial decisions, as we supposedly live in a democracy, and make our own laws - or not.
POLITICALLY, we elect a government to pass laws for the benefit of Great Britain. But the Europeans want similar laws for about 27 very dissimilar nations.

Our government doesn't seem to have the balls to look after G B. They give in meekly. French citizens block roads with tractors and burning tyres if they don't agree with the law.
We need a bit less of Etonian good manners and a bit more table thumping.
I am still undecided which camp I support
 
Oh my God !The political drama .

Come home Dave you've got nothing ,your going to get nothing .
 
wallmth - 18/2/2016 00:13

Oh my God !The political drama .

Come home Dave you've got nothing ,your going to get nothing .
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It's all a political sham or game whichever way you want to look at it.
 
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