Non - Labour Party

The Labour Party has had its day. Post Brexit, we have become a very right wing country and to attempt to win votes they have installed a centre right leader. This, of course upsets the grass roots. Put a socialist in charge and there is an ongoing battle with the British press which inevitably deflects attention from any progress. Corbyn forced the Tories into a coalition before blowing his chances by dithering on Brexit. Starmer is too busy wooing middle England to make any any friends on the left. It's a shambles.
 
stanthevan said:
The Labour Party has had its day. Post Brexit, we have become a very right wing country and to attempt to win votes they have installed a centre right leader. This, of course upsets the grass roots. Put a socialist in charge and there is an ongoing battle with the British press which inevitably deflects attention from any progress. Corbyn forced the Tories into a coalition before blowing his chances by dithering on Brexit. Starmer is too busy wooing middle England to make any any friends on the left. It's a shambles.
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And yet ironically, the most successful years for Labour in the last 5 decades were when a centralist leader was installed and the left of the party shifted with him and towed the line.
 
stanthevan said:
The Labour Party has had its day. Post Brexit, we have become a very right wing country and to attempt to win votes they have installed a centre right leader. This, of course upsets the grass roots. Put a socialist in charge and there is an ongoing battle with the British press which inevitably deflects attention from any progress. Corbyn forced the Tories into a coalition before blowing his chances by dithering on Brexit. Starmer is too busy wooing middle England to make any any friends on the left. It's a shambles.
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With the Liberals also in terrible standing the country needs a legitimate opposition.

At the moment the only option I can see is a grand coalition and PR for the voting system.

It’s likely to never see Labour in overall power again but at this point I can’t see another option.
 
stanthevan said:
The Labour Party has had its day. Post Brexit, we have become a very right wing country and to attempt to win votes they have installed a centre right leader. This, of course upsets the grass roots. Put a socialist in charge and there is an ongoing battle with the British press which inevitably deflects attention from any progress. Corbyn forced the Tories into a coalition before blowing his chances by dithering on Brexit. Starmer is too busy wooing middle England to make any any friends on the left. It's a shambles.
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just listened to a great podcast with alexei sayle chatting with jezzer corbyn talking about just those things
 
DJ said:
With the Liberals also in terrible standing the country needs a legitimate opposition.

At the moment the only option I can see is a grand coalition and PR for the voting system.

It’s likely to never see Labour in overall power again but at this point I can’t see another option.
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Anyone else jealousy looking at the German political system?
 
It's so weird reading some of the uber lefties on here and their analysis of the Labour.

I guess it's the same thinking within the Labour party which is why it's incapable of effective opposition.
 
redharry said:
Not really, looks like they might not actually have a government for weeks if not months due to the bartering between parties over the nature of the coalition. Hmmm, now theres a thought - not having a government, it does have its good points.:)
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You mean we've got a government?.......no signs of leadership anywhere
 
As funny as it might be to see the serious politicians in Labour constantly dragged down by their sixth form wing, it is frankly unhealthy to have one party given basically no opposition, and any amusement is short sighted.
 
We are one of only three countries in Europe that doesn’t use some form proportional representation.

The Conservatives gained 43.6% of the popular vote in the last election which gave them an 80 seat majority

The first past the post system is unlikely to let extremists into National politics but it did allow the BNP to gain seats in Council elections especially Burnley where they gained all the seats despite having nowhere near the the majority vote.

A similar case has happened with the BCP Council where the Conservatives, due the death of an Independent, ended up having more seats and secured the Council, despite not having a majority vote.

We would have to accept that under Proportional Representation, we would have some seats with extremist politicians in the first instance but normally what happens is their incompetence is exposed and they lose their seats. (the number depends on what percentage of the vote parties have to get to gain representation – 0.7% in the Netherlands 10% in Turkey).

The German electoral system is very complicated but it has resulted in long term stability and a government that is representative of the electorate.

On a personal level I was saddened that while the constituencies voted overwhelmingly in favour of PR the Unions didn’t and their block votes swung the vote, it was disgraceful.
 
I'd class myself on the left of Labour, but it does feel like the infighting is very unhelpful right now.

That said, I'm not sure the Labour Party wants members on the left, so maybe I'll leave and look for a better alternative.

Re PR, there was a Grauniad article yesterday about why PR would be a disaster for Labour. But the point surely is whether it would offer a better system of Government.
 
RobTrent said:
I'd class myself on the left of Labour, but it does feel like the infighting is very unhelpful right now.

That said, I'm not sure the Labour Party wants members on the left, so maybe I'll leave and look for a better alternative.

Re PR, there was a Grauniad article yesterday about why PR would be a disaster for Labour. But the point surely is whether it would offer a better system of Government.
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There is a story, possibly apocryphal, that Michael Hesseltine was asked in the early 90s when Labour would ever be elected again. His reply, it is said, was "whenever they want to be". The country desperately needs a strong, united and credible opposition - a point acknowledged by Tories I know, quite a few of whom also want rid of this dreadful, incompetent, corrupt bunch who are happily steering us to economic oblivion, social division and international isolation.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
And yet ironically, the most successful years for Labour in the last 5 decades were when a centralist leader was installed and the left of the party shifted with him and towed the line.
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The Tories were pulling themselves apart over Europe and it was an ideal time for an alternative Tory party. Far from tow the line, the left of the party constantly voted against Blair. He was saved by having so many Tories back his policies.
 
redharry said:
Not really, looks like they might not actually have a government for weeks if not months due to the bartering between parties over the nature of the coalition. Hmmm, now theres a thought - not having a government, it does have its good points.:)
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I honestly think it's better. Usually when these things happen they are still able to function (countries with PR rather than just Germany) and you avoid the extremes that both of our parties decend into. Sure Labour are a shambles atm but I don't know one Tory who is satisfied with the government this system has produced. They've been more successful in keeping it together but they've still culled most of their moderate (and competent) ministers and ended up with a leader that the vast majority of Tories think is an incompetent buffoon.

PR would allow left and right to split into factions and form governments that wouldn't pander to the extremes.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I honestly think it's better. Usually when these things happen they are still able to function (countries with PR rather than just Germany) and you avoid the extremes that both of our parties decend into. Sure Labour are a shambles atm but I don't know one Tory who is satisfied with the government this system has produced. They've been more successful in keeping it together but they've still culled most of their moderate (and competent) ministers and ended up with a leader that the vast majority of Tories think is an incompetent buffoon.

PR would allow left and right to split into factions and form governments that wouldn't pander to the extremes.
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Is there a realistic chance Boris can be 'voted' out in the near future by his party?
 
The Labour party was written off as a passing fad in the 1900s. After Ramsey MacDonald split the Party in 1931, they were supposed to be finished. Then there was the 1945 election.

Jim "Crisis, what crisis?" Callaghan and the formation of the SPD was the death knell for Labour at the end of the 1970s. Then came that Blair bloke and 1997.

Both of those two Labour landslides were, at the time, considered as the fat lady singing for the Conservatives.

History tells us that what comes around, comes around.
 
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