Non - Pandemic

RobTrent said:
Well, you'll have seen how the 'wrong people' can affect the 'right people' if the virus is left to spread.

You and red harry seem to bang on about freedom, but I bet if I started mentioning Human Rights you'd start calling me a Marxist. ;-)
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That is not what I meant and you are intelligent enough to realise that, surely?

I am saying that right now, we need to also start looking after those affected by the restrictions. Those losing businesses, livelihoods, mental well being, not to mention those who have died or are ill with 'everything else'. We have seen depression going through the roof [ heard news on the radio last week how a Psychologist who deals with teenagers, had suicides to deal with this year, one was just 12 years old ]. Another caller to the radio yesterday, saying how her son had lost his business and show she had sold her car and jewellery to help him financially and that they had been living on homemade soup ]. We could find millions of people who could share similar stories and right now, the risk of the virus is not high enough to close down the country, any longer.

Was it four hospitals in the country who are busier now than they usually are for this time of year, that was announced yesterday? Infection rates were already coming down in most areas before the start of November too. We have seen Vallance and Whitty give out information that was proven to be wrong just hours later. We know the testing systems used to help build stats is also wrong.

I'm certainly not suggesting everything go back to normality tomorrow morning. But pretty much every region in the UK could be tier one tomorrow quite easily. So we remain wary, we keep being careful, people at risk remain especially careful but for the vast majority, we could get back to living our lives again, to keep our businesses going, to improve our mental health etc etc. Unless the Govt can find some actual science behind their decisions, they will continue to be picked apart and the public will lose all trust.
 
redharry said:
Actually you introduced Ellwood and his comments about Nightingales and I responded with a view that perhaps they could be used as isolation type units and staffed perhaps by Forces medical personnel. Nothing to do with hospitality, and as you say its not just pubs its also people from mixed households mixing indoors.
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If it’s really necessary to do the whole he said she said thing, you said you support our local MP’s stance.

I then pointed out what that stance actually is.

All of poor old Tobias’ tweets and comments in the media have been about hospitality.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1331949354236719111
 
Just a reminder for the MP’s who are voting tonight.

Their vote could make a difference to the figures in the future.

Another 13,430 people have tested positive for COVID-19 in the UK, with 603 more having died after contracting the disease.

The latest government figures bring the total number of coronaviruscases in the UK to 1,643,086 - and the total number of deaths within 28 days of a positive COVID-19 test to 59,051.

It is a slight rise from the 12,330 new cases that were posted on Monday, but a significant increase on the 205 deaths that were recorded.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-records-another-13-430-cases-and-603-deaths-1214811
 
davygravy said:
That is not what I meant and you are intelligent enough to realise that, surely?

I am saying that right now, we need to also start looking after those affected by the restrictions. Those losing businesses, livelihoods, mental well being, not to mention those who have died or are ill with 'everything else'. We have seen depression going through the roof [ heard news on the radio last week how a Psychologist who deals with teenagers, had suicides to deal with this year, one was just 12 years old ]. Another caller to the radio yesterday, saying how her son had lost his business and show she had sold her car and jewellery to help him financially and that they had been living on homemade soup ]. We could find millions of people who could share similar stories and right now, the risk of the virus is not high enough to close down the country, any longer.

Was it four hospitals in the country who are busier now than they usually are for this time of year, that was announced yesterday? Infection rates were already coming down in most areas before the start of November too. We have seen Vallance and Whitty give out information that was proven to be wrong just hours later. We know the testing systems used to help build stats is also wrong.

I'm certainly not suggesting everything go back to normality tomorrow morning. But pretty much every region in the UK could be tier one tomorrow quite easily. So we remain wary, we keep being careful, people at risk remain especially careful but for the vast majority, we could get back to living our lives again, to keep our businesses going, to improve our mental health etc etc. Unless the Govt can find some actual science behind their decisions, they will continue to be picked apart and the public will lose all trust.
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Except we didn't remain wary did we? Cases started to rise.

I'm intelligent enough to know that.
 
DJ said:
Ellwood’s stance is that we should use the nightingale hospitals more... which basically drills down to...over stretching nhs workers across multiple sites and happy to have more people needing hospital admissions all to give more freedoms to the hospitality sector.

I’ll take the local medical advice over a trumped up MP who thought he was being over worked and underpaid for his £90k a year...
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When the nightingales were planned did no one think they would need staffing?

The army are overstretched doing mass testing aka community testing.
 
RobTrent said:
Except we didn't remain wary did we? Cases started to rise.

I'm intelligent enough to know that.
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Then you may also have seen all the graphs and stats that showed numbers coming down too, before the start of November?

And even then, do you genuinely believe these lockdown measures are justifiable, when they are causing so much grief and suffering to so many people?
 
davygravy said:
Then you may also have seen all the graphs and stats that showed numbers coming down too, before the start of November?

And even then, do you genuinely believe these lockdown measures are justifiable, when they are causing so much grief and suffering to so many people?
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No not true. Take a look at the rolling 7 day average graph

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Cases started to flatten in October. About the time we introduced the initial tier system. Then by mid November there is a big drop in cases. Surely not a coincidence this comes just after the lockdown.

Meanwhile deaths have shown little sign of budging. As you should no there is a lag from cases being reported and deaths occurring. Where do you think deaths would be now if cases were still rising.

By all means dislike the severity of the lockdown measures. But don’t deny the impact it has had on how we are controlling the virus when it’s clear to see from the stats.
 
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Tinpot Club said:
No not true. Take a look at the rolling 7 day average graph

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Cases started to flatten in October. About the time we introduced the initial tier system. Then by mid November there is a big drop in cases. Surely not a coincidence this comes just after the lockdown.

Meanwhile deaths have shown little sign of budging. As you should no there is a lag from cases being reported and deaths occurring. Where do you think deaths would be now if cases were still rising.

By all means dislike the severity of the lockdown measures. But don’t deny the impact it has had on how we are controlling the virus when it’s clear to see from the stats.
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I think you have been listening to Vallance and Whitty too much and believing what they tell you. Rates were going down before the November lockdown in most areas.

Either way, these restrictions are not justifiable with the damage they are doing with everything else. We didn't shut the country two years ago for circa 50k excess deaths in the flu outbreak that year and we shouldn't close the country down for this either now.

The 56 brave Tory MPs today should have their name in lights. Those who meekly nodded their heads should hang their heads in shame.
 
davygravy said:
I think you have been listening to Vallance and Whitty too much and believing what they tell you. Rates were going down before the November lockdown in most areas.

Either way, these restrictions are not justifiable with the damage they are doing with everything else. We didn't shut the country two years ago for circa 50k excess deaths in the flu outbreak that year and we shouldn't close the country down for this either now.

The 56 brave Tory MPs today should have their name in lights. Those who meekly nodded their heads should hang their heads in shame.
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I’ve not listened to Vallance or Witty for months. I simply look at the graphs I posted in my link. Your stat about 50k flu deaths 2 years ago has been shown to be not true either but since you aren’t going to be convinced by evidence then there’s no point
 
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Tinpot Club said:
I’ve not listened to Vallance or Witty for months. I simply look at the graphs I posted in my link. Your stat about 50k flu deaths 2 years ago has been shown to be not true either but since you aren’t going to be convinced by evidence then there’s no point
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haha, ok fella, if it makes you happy, we'll pretend you are right.
 
davygravy said:
Then you may also have seen all the graphs and stats that showed numbers coming down too, before the start of November?

And even then, do you genuinely believe these lockdown measures are justifiable, when they are causing so much grief and suffering to so many people?
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Yes I do.
 
RobTrent said:
Yes I do.
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Can I ask why? I have seen no evidence to back these rules. And you think those who are losing their businesses, who are losing jobs, whose mental health is crashing.....that they would think these measures are still ok, for such a small risk of serious illness?
 
I don't expect others to feel they way I do. I hope they would. I appreciate some might lose out, but I think this is the right approach.

davygravy said:
Can I ask why? I have seen no evidence to back these rules. And you think those who are losing their businesses, who are losing jobs, whose mental health is crashing.....that they would think these measures are still ok, for such a small risk of serious illness?
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davygravy said:
Can I ask why? I have seen no evidence to back these rules. And you think those who are losing their businesses, who are losing jobs, whose mental health is crashing.....that they would think these measures are still ok, for such a small risk of serious illness?
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There’s plenty of evidence, even on this thread.

You’ve completely dismissed the fact that the tier system was introduced before the lockdown, but quote that infections were falling before lockdown...where was it falling? In tier 3 areas, where was it increasing? In tier 1 and 2 areas.

Hull went from tier 1 to the worst hit area before the full lockdown was introduced.
 
RobTrent said:
I don't expect others to feel they way I do. I hope they would. I appreciate some might lose out, but I think this is the right approach.
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With respect then Rob, I would hope most decent people would think these rules are horrendous and totally out of proportion. It's ruining lives!
 
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