Non: Train Strike

Would you rather have a guard on the platform checking all doors are clear before he allows the train to move (like on trains from the Bournemouth area to London etc).

Or just rely on the driver with CCTV in his cab where another incident like this could happen.

Personally I prefer the guard to be checking the doors.

I know we have a train driver on this forum, be interesting to hear his views on safety.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/southern-trains-strike-dramatic-image-11241167

 
When you get on or off the train at Christchurch, with a wheelchair, the guard has to set a ramp up. Then, when the wheelchair is on or off the train (as required) , the guard secures the ramp against the station wall. Who's going to do that, if there's no guard?
 
table - 9/8/2016 17:15

When you get on or off the train at Christchurch, with a wheelchair, the guard has to set a ramp up. Then, when the wheelchair is on or off the train (as required) , the guard secures the ramp against the station wall. Who's going to do that, if there's no guard?
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That's a very good point, not heard that argument been mentioned in the various discussions about this like on the newspaper review on Sky.

Do we have any posters who use Southern who also use a wheelchair?
 
Isn't there still going to be a customer services type person on board who will provide that sort of assistance. This dispute could well be about down skilling the guard to customer services if they cant close the door. Depends which report you read
 
GaryRB - 9/8/2016 22:25

Isn't there still going to be a customer services type person on board who will provide that sort of assistance. This dispute could well be about down skilling the guard to customer services if they cant close the door. Depends which report you read
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Yep , thats about the long and short of it.

There are a few drivers (& guards) on this forum,and I don't think any would take their responsibilities & pay reduced without a fight !

Would anyone ? :thumsd:
 
So the role is still needed but the idea is to pay those doing it less.
Obviously the money saved will be reflected in lower fares rather than increased profits.

Sometimes nationalising public services like transport doesnt seem so weird.
 
Thanks for clarifying that, chaps. I thought last season, when we went to Upton park, the stations are more accessible but there are very few staff to give assistance or advice, when you need it.
 
5000 or so posts on the subject on Rail UK forums if you want some in depth discussion on all the ins and outs. :eyes:
 
Bbc News

Strikes by Southern rail staff on Thursday and Friday called off as talks continue - UK conciliation service Acas
 
Grumpy G - 10/8/2016 14:14

5000 or so posts on the subject on Rail UK forums if you want some in depth discussion on all the ins and outs. :eyes:
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I suppose going on strike allows plenty of time to write about it.
Agreed nobody likes to be down skilled and pay dropped accordingly, but people more qualified than me can debate whether its better in the long term for business and customers alike. Lets remember it is a service industry, not established for the benefit of workers who think nothing should ever change
 
GaryRB - 10/8/2016 20:20

Grumpy G - 10/8/2016 14:14

5000 or so posts on the subject on Rail UK forums if you want some in depth discussion on all the ins and outs. :eyes:
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I suppose going on strike allows plenty of time to write about it.
Agreed nobody likes to be down skilled and pay dropped accordingly, but people more qualified than me can debate whether its better in the long term for business and customers alike. Lets remember it is a service industry, not established for the benefit of workers who think nothing should ever change
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The main thing is the publics safety above everything else.
 
billythekid - 10/8/2016 20:23

The main thing is the publics safety above everything else.
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If the Unions had their way, they would still insist on a man walking in front of every train, carrying a red flag!




 
billythekid - 10/8/2016 14:15

Bbc News

Strikes by Southern rail staff on Thursday and Friday called off as talks continue - UK conciliation service Acas
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Yeah, I saw that, but they're still not running trains today because, heck people who have to commute.
 
billythekid - 9/8/2016 13:08

Would you rather have a guard on the platform checking all doors are clear before he allows the train to move (like on trains from the Bournemouth area to London etc).

Or just rely on the driver with CCTV in his cab where another incident like this could happen.

Personally I prefer the guard to be checking the doors.

I know we have a train driver on this forum, be interesting to hear his views on safety.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/southern-trains-strike-dramatic-image-11241167
Click to expand...

Been away on holiday and just sorted out West Ham tickets, so now that I have a bit of time.......!

My train company are not one of the ones involved in any of the industrial action but as a union member and someone who keeps a close eye on things happening within my industry here is what I would add.

Before working on the railway I had worked previously worked for large private companies that had no union representation for it's employees. One of these was because the owner had stated that he would shut the company down before he allowed a union.

Having seen both sides of this, as an employee, I would never now want to be without a union. This is not because I want to stand in the way of my company making money, far from it. I am there to help them make money so that I can in turn make money! I really enjoy my job and am lucky to work for a good employer. Over the years I have seen a number of employees rightly dismissed and in many cases wrongly dismissed. The latter have through union representation on appeal got their jobs back, this is something that didn't happened in the private companies.

I had one occasion at a non-union company that wanted to impose a change of shift pattern that resulted in us losing 3 days off a month. They imposed it on us and told us if we didn't like it that was our problem and to find employment elsewhere. Some people might find this acceptable, personally I don't. When this happens where I now work the company will discuss changes to employment contracts with the union and they will come to an amicable decision based on whats best for both the company and the employees. This will sometimes involve the employees taking part in a democratic vote to decide if they accept an offer or after lengthy negotiations a mandate for strike action. This rarely happens but in the case of Southern (now in arbitration), ScotRail, Eurostar and Virgin East Coast it has.

The reasons for the above companies being in dispute with it's employees are long (like this post!) and complicated and involve many reasons that go unreported in the press.

The main reason for the Southern argument is the role of Guards on board trains. The company want to change the name, salary and job description of the guard to a type of customer service role that will not involve them in the opening and closing of the train doors. The fear of many, and it has long been on the plans of some train operating companies, is to then remove this person from the train completely leaving only a driver on board. The safety implications of this are huge. There have been many incidents with DOO (Driver Only Operation) Trains. These have involved people being dragged down platforms after becoming trapped in doors that could not be properly seen by the driver. There is also a security issue with the removal of safety competent staff from trains.

What has impressed me about the Southern dispute is the public's support of the employee's. Not everyone of course but certainly the majority of the commuters affected understand the position of the guard and of the importance of safety over profit. Many female commuters have also stated that they feel safer with a guard on board.

There are also bigger, more underlying things here than it first appears.

Some people may wonder why Southern and other TOC's (Train Operating Companies) want to reduce the role of guard. Unfortunately there can only be one real reason and that is money. With reduced responsibilties comes reduced wages. That would be acceptable perhaps if it were for the greater good, if all Southern's profits were ploughed back into the rail system to reduce ticket prices or more importantly invest in the infrastructure like track, signalling or rolling stock. No, it's purely to increase the dividends to shareholders and that is what employee's can't accept and that is what unions are prepared to fight against. Safety first and not profits.

Remember the tax payer funds a huge part of the railway yet the TOC's still make millions of pounds of profits for it's overseas shareholders. I'm not at all against making money, far from it. I have been a beneficiary of it through my wages. However, when the track is outdated, the signalling system is from the 60's and the infrastructure can't cope with hot weather then reinvestment is key. Would I take a pay freeze for a few years if it was to be reinvested 100% to help the industry? Sure. Would I take one whilst the company reduces my wages and job security to ensure it increases it profits to benefit it's already wealthy owners. No way.

This may seem like I'm saying as long as the company scratch my back then I'm ok. Again far from it. As a union member we are constantly campaigning to freeze or reduce ticket prices and some members want to re-nationalise the railway for the greater good. I'm not sure that will ever happen but what I'm certain of is the railway network needs constant cash to keep it running efficiently, something that happens in other countries but nowhere near it should be here in the UK, partly down to privatisation.
 
'The main reason for the Southern argument is the role of Guards on board trains. The company want to change the name, salary and job description of the guard to a type of customer service role that will not involve them in the opening and closing of the train doors. The fear of many, and it has long been on the plans of some train operating companies, is to then remove this person from the train completely leaving only a driver on board. The safety implications of this are huge. There have been many incidents with DOO (Driver Only Operation) Trains. These have involved people being dragged down platforms after becoming trapped in doors that could not be properly seen by the driver. There is also a security issue with the removal of safety competent staff from trains.'

Thanks for the info, that's been my concern re the above, experience replaced with someone probably on a lower wage and little or no training.
Prefer a human eye looking along train while it is stopped in station and checking all is clear and safe to move than what they call progress with CCTV operated by the driver.

I watch the paper reviews on Sky and from what I have seen and heard from some of the reviewers on there they were not sympathetic with the guards and put the dispute down to wages and loss of jobs, could be they were commuters on Southern themselves.

On the Waterloo train from Bournemouth area (normally get on at Christchurch), the guard is there not only for the safety of the passengers, but to answer any problems and be available for any problems that may arrise, not so easy to speak to the driver.

 
Trouble is DOO has been pretty established (since BR times) on certain routes and areas.

As for Southern, Govia (the parent company) already had the Thameslink franchise, which has much DOO including "main-line" services; and they are all to pleased to try and do the Governments dirty work for them.

ASLEF can't wade in, as their previous DOO-acquiesence, has put the kybosh on them striking in support, as per the recent high court judgement against them which has cost them a pretty penny.

Now even franchise owners which have historically had management firmly against DOO (SWT/Stagecoach for one) are finding DOO written into the tender conditions when their franchises come up for renewal.
 
Trouble is customer satisfaction with rail services continue to go down as prices go up above the rate of inflation while public funds are scrounged to fund investment.

Privatised transport isnt working for the best for the uk, time to reclaim national assets.
 
Seems to have been one thing after another since they took over.


THOSE hoping to travel by train on Sundays in November and December, beware – it's likely to be a difficult journey.

Buses will replace trains between Bournemouth and Weymouth until mid-morning on Sunday, November 3.

All lines between the two stations will shut for maintenance work during the morning. It is hoped lines will reopen at around 9.30am, in time for the normal Great Western Railway service to and from Weymouth to run.

Altered train services and buses will also replace trains in the Southampton area on Sunday, November 17.

No train services will run between Southampton Airport Parkway and Bournemouth. A revised train service will run between Bournemouth and Weymouth.

There will also be no Poole portion on the Portsmouth via Eastleigh services. Passengers should use the hourly service to Southampton Airport Parkway and change for the replacement buses.

Bus services for local journeys will run between Eastleigh, Southampton and Bournemouth, also between Southampton Central and New Milton via Brockenhurst and Lymington.

Finally, on Sunday, December 1, buses will replace trains between Southampton and Poole.

https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/17990828.railways-shut-bournemouth-area-sundays-winter/
 
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