Outstanding money owed and relegation clauses

SteveJonesLegend

SteveJonesLegend

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So a couple of questions from someone that reads, listens but is never 'in the know'... So anyone out there with legal, and finance knowledge... I'm all ears...

1) Relegation clauses... So my assumption is that everyone in our squad, at some time in the last 5 seasons has had a new contract (be that renewed, or is new), so since we were promoted. I also assume that having been a PL club (at the time) that these contracts were worked over by an above average firm of lawyers, specialising in sports (hopefully football) contracts... So how is it we are hearing that a large number of our players (some top earners) have no relegation clauses in their contracts? Paper talk? Bullpoo/ or extreme incompetence by our board? If the latter, I am astounded by the levels of tinpotness we continue to show...

2) Outstanding monies owed... I am going to assume the this figure of £80+m that we still owe for player purchases is because of most, if not all contracts being paid over instalments... Can someone tell me please, if this is £80+m that is needed to be paid now, or continued in instalments and is affordable do we think...? Should we be worried about this figure, seeing as all the talk is now of a fire-sale?

It's amazing that there was an air of content after Max's statements and having read some stuff in the last 24hrs, I'm beginning to think we're proper in the sh*t... ??
 
Al will be along in a minute to explain everything properly, but on the question of transfer monies owed, these are usually paid down at the rate of 25% per annum, so that would come to around £20 million a year, I guess ?
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
So a couple of questions from someone that reads, listens but is never 'in the know'... So anyone out there with legal, and finance knowledge... I'm all ears...

1) Relegation clauses... So my assumption is that everyone in our squad, at some time in the last 5 seasons has had a new contract (be that renewed, or is new), so since we were promoted. I also assume that having been a PL club (at the time) that these contracts were worked over by an above average firm of lawyers, specialising in sports (hopefully football) contracts... So how is it we are hearing that a large number of our players (some top earners) have no relegation clauses in their contracts? Paper talk? Bullpoo/ or extreme incompetence by our board? If the latter, I am astounded by the levels of tinpotness we continue to show...

2) Outstanding monies owed... I am going to assume the this figure of £80+m that we still owe for player purchases is because of most, if not all contracts being paid over instalments... Can someone tell me please, if this is £80+m that is needed to be paid now, or continued in instalments and is affordable do we think...? Should we be worried about this figure, seeing as all the talk is now of a fire-sale?

It's amazing that there was an air of content after Max's statements and having read some stuff in the last 24hrs, I'm beginning to think we're proper in the sh*t... ??
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Based on what? Maxis the majority shareholder and funder. But you'd rather believe people on here?
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
So a couple of questions from someone that reads, listens but is never 'in the know'... So anyone out there with legal, and finance knowledge... I'm all ears...

1) Relegation clauses... So my assumption is that everyone in our squad, at some time in the last 5 seasons has had a new contract (be that renewed, or is new), so since we were promoted. I also assume that having been a PL club (at the time) that these contracts were worked over by an above average firm of lawyers, specialising in sports (hopefully football) contracts... So how is it we are hearing that a large number of our players (some top earners) have no relegation clauses in their contracts? Paper talk? Bullpoo/ or extreme incompetence by our board? If the latter, I am astounded by the levels of tinpotness we continue to show...

2) Outstanding monies owed... I am going to assume the this figure of £80+m that we still owe for player purchases is because of most, if not all contracts being paid over instalments... Can someone tell me please, if this is £80+m that is needed to be paid now, or continued in instalments and is affordable do we think...? Should we be worried about this figure, seeing as all the talk is now of a fire-sale?

It's amazing that there was an air of content after Max's statements and having read some stuff in the last 24hrs, I'm beginning to think we're proper in the sh*t... ??
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Not sure where you get the "we are hearing that a large number of our players (some top earners) have no relegation clauses in their contracts?". Where from, I have not heard anything at all.
Re the player purchases you don't seriously expect anyone on here to know the details do you ?
A tip - ignore forum talk, twitterati, facebum etc. take it all with a pinch of salt and go out and enjoy the sunshine..:):utc:
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
It's amazing that there was an air of content after Max's statements and having read some stuff in the last 24hrs, I'm beginning to think we're proper in the sh*t... ??
Click to expand...

Only Max knows the answer to your questions not some journo from the Telegraph changing his story within minutes of posting it or some kid on twitter. If we're in the **************** Max has an extremely unusual way of showing it.
 
Has our owner let us down yet?

Some will mention the stadium, but he must have had his reasons.

He has taken us on the ‘best ride‘ with Eddie through the leagues and five seasons in the top league.

There was talk on here/speculation that MD would walk away from the club now we have been relegated.

Then we had his statement and now we wait to see what happens with Eddie.
 
OK, so maybe I need to clarify something... and should have highlighted the 'beginning to think'. So, I'm not believing everything I read, however, on occasion there is no smoke without fire... and this is a forum after all... isn't it..??? where people discuss things...? :unsure:

I agree in that if we are in the sh*t, then Max's statement didn't really convey this... adn of course that is the most important thing... However, you can't help but see and hear a lot information thrown at us atm, around finances, players, contracts etc... and there are people on here that do seem to have more understanding and knowledge of these things than I... So, I figured I would put it out there and see... however, there seem to be some that have clearly exited their beds on the wrong side this morning...

For me, I like to take in everything and try to filter out what I believe to be crap, there are some people tho I tend to listen to more as their words have in the past been based on some substance... and it's these murmurings that promoted me to ask the questions... Thx @davidwhitehead for clarifying that point... :)
 
I guess we also need to factor in the fees received for Mings and Mousset last year - about £40 million in total, wasn't it ? So, could we reasonably assume that we are still due around £30 million in staggered transfer payments to set against what we owe ?
 
davidwhitehead said:
I guess we also need to factor in the fees received for Mings and Mousset last year - about £40 million in total, wasn't it ? So, could we reasonably assume that we are still due around £30 million in staggered transfer payments to set against what we owe ?
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I believe we took out financing on those to get the money immediately in exchange for a fee to the financing company. This is common for a lot of clubs in football and shouldn't be seen as unusual or a sign of anything bad but does mean that money is gone.
 
Those outstanding fees will continue to be due over the coming months and 2-3 years, some this summer, some in a year, and so on.

Likewise the sales we make this summer will provide income over the coming months and 2-3 years. Realistically, Nathan Ake's fee will go towards paying a lot of this down (is my guess).
 
red_house said:
Only Max knows the answer to your questions not some journo from the Telegraph changing his story within minutes of posting it or some kid on twitter. If we're in the **************** Max has an extremely unusual way of showing it.
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Seems like an unusual bloke tbf. And I would know
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
So a couple of questions from someone that reads, listens but is never 'in the know'... So anyone out there with legal, and finance knowledge... I'm all ears...

1) Relegation clauses... So my assumption is that everyone in our squad, at some time in the last 5 seasons has had a new contract (be that renewed, or is new), so since we were promoted. I also assume that having been a PL club (at the time) that these contracts were worked over by an above average firm of lawyers, specialising in sports (hopefully football) contracts... So how is it we are hearing that a large number of our players (some top earners) have no relegation clauses in their contracts? Paper talk? Bullpoo/ or extreme incompetence by our board? If the latter, I am astounded by the levels of tinpotness we continue to show...

2) Outstanding monies owed... I am going to assume the this figure of £80+m that we still owe for player purchases is because of most, if not all contracts being paid over instalments... Can someone tell me please, if this is £80+m that is needed to be paid now, or continued in instalments and is affordable do we think...? Should we be worried about this figure, seeing as all the talk is now of a fire-sale?

It's amazing that there was an air of content after Max's statements and having read some stuff in the last 24hrs, I'm beginning to think we're proper in the sh*t... ??
Click to expand...


Athletic quotes £81m owed of which £32m due this summer. We are owed £5m although not sure if this due to use of factoring to get cash upfront and whether includes Mings.

£32m is a lot of cash to find this summer as well as covering the weekly operational cash outgoings.
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
So, I figured I would put it out there and see... however, there seem to be some that have clearly exited their beds on the wrong side this morning...
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I got out the usual side. No malice intended in that post of mine however I did post it after reading the views of an avalanche of armchair experts who suddenly came out of the woodwork plus some random Villa fan. I can't imagine Max making a statement like that if he was overly worried about the finances, however we know so little about him or his wealth its difficult to quantify.
AFCBade said:
£32m is a lot of cash to find this summer as well as covering the weekly operational cash outgoings.
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I wonder when the parachute payment is paid. I know PL TV money was brought forward to July to assist teams in the summer transfer window.
 
Monmouthred said:
For what its worth I was told everybody bar Aké had 30% reduction clauses.

Lerma interest from Galatasary.

No idea how accurate.
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Makes sense....really no point in putting a relegation clause in Ake's contract as he was never going to play in the Championship..........surprised Jeff has one though!
 
red_house said:
I got out the usual side. No malice intended in that post of mine however I did post it after reading the views of an avalanche of armchair experts who suddenly came out of the woodwork plus some random Villa fan. I can't imagine Max making a statement like that if he was overly worried about the finances, however we know so little about him or his wealth its difficult to quantify.


I wonder when the parachute payment is paid. I know PL TV money was bought forward to July to assist teams in the summer transfer window.
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With Nathan's pending [alleged] up front deal, maybe we wont need to worry about the £32m so much now...
 
red_house said:
I got out the usual side. No malice intended in that post of mine however I did post it after reading the views of an avalanche of armchair experts who suddenly came out of the woodwork plus some random Villa fan. I can't imagine Max making a statement like that if he was overly worried about the finances, however we know so little about him or his wealth its difficult to quantify.


I wonder when the parachute payment is paid. I know PL TV money was brought forward to July to assist teams in the summer transfer window.
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What we do know about Max and Eddie is that nothing ever gets leaked about anything......I think that Matt Law chap has form for having a pop at us and in particular Eddie.
 
I might be wrong here but wasn’t the £81m in the accounts as of last summer?

If true we had already done some of our business and unlike previous seasons, didn’t make any January signings. Therefore, would it be possible that some of the Sky money for this season would have been put aside to cover this deficit rather than further spending.

Our low net spend makes sense taking into account with this news but it might not be as bad a position as it looks.
 
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