Season passes with a whimper?

In response to Flying Picket:

1. Failure to get the best out of Mings and then sending him out on loan leaving the defence vulnerable when players get injured.
The Mings we sent out on loan was physically fragile and, in the games I saw, not especially impressive. He's not better than Ake, and he wasn't outperforming Cook. He deserved to be on the bench. He's now had a fantastic run of games, stayed fit and delivered some excellent performances, which means we either get back a better player, or we make a profit. Excellent decision by EH.

2. Sending Pugh out on loan instead of Ibe. Would start the former every time over the latter.
IMO, Ibe has been perfectly fine since we sent Pugh out on loan. I'd even argue that, in some games, he's been pretty good. People seem to have this idea in their head that Ibe should be a superstar because of his fee. He's clearly not going to be world class or anything, but he's our 4th choice winger. In the role of 4th choice winger, he's absolutely fine. I'd rather have Ibe as an option than Pugh, personally.

3. Finally waking up to the fact Begovic had the worst goalkeeping record in the division, when others on here including myself had been pointing it out for months.
If Eddie came to a conclusion that you agree with, I'm not exactly sure how that constitutes "really poor judgement"? He could maybe have been dropped a bit sooner, but its hardly catastrophic decision making, is it?

4. Poor handling of Fraser, so much so that he wants to leave the club.
Fraser has played 41 PL games this season; more than any other season, without starting a single game at Wingback. This is a ridiculous statement, with no evidence whatsoever.

5. A terrible January transfer window, What is the point of Solanke and Mepham
The point of Solanke and Mepham, I would have thought, was to sign promising players for the future. Solanke has had a lot of niggly, disruptive injuries, but has still put in some very good performances and looks like a fantastic prospect. Mepham has been mostly good, stepping into the team sooner than he probably expected, with a few terrible performances as well. Not as terrible as this opinion, mind you.

6. And what is the point of Mosset and Rico come to that. Millions forked out for no return.
Mousset cost £6 million, it's not a lot really is it? The thing about transfers, is that there is an element of risk. I think Mousset has another level to get to, and I'm interested to see if it happens. Rico was signed to challenge Daniels, and he started off well. It's not worked yet, but give him another pre-season and see what happens.

7. Inability to win two successive games. Such a turn round in form between 2 games. Like win 5-0 at Brighton and then lose 1-0 at home to Fulham, win 4-0 at home to Chelsea, lose 2-0 away at Cardiff. Must take the biscuit for inconsistency. Having fantastic wins, the adrenalin should be so high, yet it never is.
I agree with this. Except most of our games before January, of course; before we got all those injuries. We were comfortably top half and flying. But inconsistency is frustrating, yes.

8. Too much faith in players who would struggle in the Championship like Daniels, Francis, Gosling, Surman
None of these players would struggle in the Championship, and none of them have had particularly bad seasons, except for Daniels, who we know now was struggling mentally with personal issues. Puzzling comment.

9. Another FA Cup debacle.
Not really; losing to a fellow PL team while dealing with an injury ravaged squad is not a debacle.

10. Failure to beat our rival Scummers for the third successive season even though the League Table suggests we are better than they.
Not really an Eddie Howe judgement issue is it? We'd have won 3-4 if not for a Wilson miss in the second game. Fine margins. Don't be such a baby.

11. Players who go down far to easy. Makes me ashamed.
Yeah, really poor judgement by EH to keep going down that easily. Wish he'd stop doing it.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Lies, damned lies and statistics.

As usual Spread sheet Druss can prove anything to himself unless it involves one of Ibes better games.

Points tally’s vary for reasons. You can have a year where the bottom team give everyone six points and a year where they only narrowly go down. You can have years where the top six give people nothing or a year where a few of them are off the ball.

To me you have to judge it on what you see, what the management and players say and whether you see the players in front of you visually getting better, staying the same or getting worse.

To me it’s been our poorest year in this league. Eddie also has talked about the strange inconsistency that has crept in. Players haven’t always looked happy and sulk with each other on pitch.

How many players that were with us last year (so we can judge) are better than last season. I’d say weeman and that’s it. Maybe Wilson. Everyone else has stayed the same or gone backwards. That’s really poor. We have had four injections of 100m plus and still haven’t rectified the ability to defend, play a five man midfield or a plan b of attacking.

Yes, every year we stay in this division is a fillip for us older fans but is that the level of our ambition? To stay in the PL, not look to really progress in cups? Not attack Man City at all. That’s not the spirit of this club, that’s the spirit of Tony Pulis.

If I had one wish for this club it would be to start thinking beyond ‘we used to play Grimsby’ and to start to think like a PL club on and off the field. Improve the facilities, stop the endless nepotistic coaching appointments, attack the FA Cup one year. Start going at teams again. Let’s not become a West Brom let’s go back to the Eddie trademark football.
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Agree totally......yet again!
The only reason Fraser improved was due to a fall out with Eddie at the start of the season. This came from his pre season interviews where he said he needs to do his own thing and ignore what others tell him to do. Leaving was inevitable
 
FP’s point 3 is spot on, but the other 10 are very debatable or just plain wrong.

No 10 just made me laugh - chop logic as my old Chinese grandmother used to say.

Re Rico wasn’t he bought in the same window as Lerma and Brooks? Two outta three ain’t bad as the song goes.
 
NWCherries98 said:
In response to Flying Picket:

1. Failure to get the best out of Mings and then sending him out on loan leaving the defence vulnerable when players get injured.
The Mings we sent out on loan was physically fragile and, in the games I saw, not especially impressive. He's not better than Ake, and he wasn't outperforming Cook. He deserved to be on the bench. He's now had a fantastic run of games, stayed fit and delivered some excellent performances, which means we either get back a better player, or we make a profit. Excellent decision by EH.

2. Sending Pugh out on loan instead of Ibe. Would start the former every time over the latter.
IMO, Ibe has been perfectly fine since we sent Pugh out on loan. I'd even argue that, in some games, he's been pretty good. People seem to have this idea in their head that Ibe should be a superstar because of his fee. He's clearly not going to be world class or anything, but he's our 4th choice winger. In the role of 4th choice winger, he's absolutely fine. I'd rather have Ibe as an option than Pugh, personally.

3. Finally waking up to the fact Begovic had the worst goalkeeping record in the division, when others on here including myself had been pointing it out for months.
If Eddie came to a conclusion that you agree with, I'm not exactly sure how that constitutes "really poor judgement"? He could maybe have been dropped a bit sooner, but its hardly catastrophic decision making, is it?

4. Poor handling of Fraser, so much so that he wants to leave the club.
Fraser has played 41 PL games this season; more than any other season, without starting a single game at Wingback. This is a ridiculous statement, with no evidence whatsoever.

5. A terrible January transfer window, What is the point of Solanke and Mepham
The point of Solanke and Mepham, I would have thought, was to sign promising players for the future. Solanke has had a lot of niggly, disruptive injuries, but has still put in some very good performances and looks like a fantastic prospect. Mepham has been mostly good, stepping into the team sooner than he probably expected, with a few terrible performances as well. Not as terrible as this opinion, mind you.

6. And what is the point of Mosset and Rico come to that. Millions forked out for no return.
Mousset cost £6 million, it's not a lot really is it? The thing about transfers, is that there is an element of risk. I think Mousset has another level to get to, and I'm interested to see if it happens. Rico was signed to challenge Daniels, and he started off well. It's not worked yet, but give him another pre-season and see what happens.

7. Inability to win two successive games. Such a turn round in form between 2 games. Like win 5-0 at Brighton and then lose 1-0 at home to Fulham, win 4-0 at home to Chelsea, lose 2-0 away at Cardiff. Must take the biscuit for inconsistency. Having fantastic wins, the adrenalin should be so high, yet it never is.
I agree with this. Except most of our games before January, of course; before we got all those injuries. We were comfortably top half and flying. But inconsistency is frustrating, yes.

8. Too much faith in players who would struggle in the Championship like Daniels, Francis, Gosling, Surman
None of these players would struggle in the Championship, and none of them have had particularly bad seasons, except for Daniels, who we know now was struggling mentally with personal issues. Puzzling comment.

9. Another FA Cup debacle.
Not really; losing to a fellow PL team while dealing with an injury ravaged squad is not a debacle.

10. Failure to beat our rival Scummers for the third successive season even though the League Table suggests we are better than they.
Not really an Eddie Howe judgement issue is it? We'd have won 3-4 if not for a Wilson miss in the second game. Fine margins. Don't be such a baby.

11. Players who go down far to easy. Makes me ashamed.
Yeah, really poor judgement by EH to keep going down that easily. Wish he'd stop doing it.
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Are you Max Demin?
 
Neil Dawson said:
Do you seriously need to show me that? Like I’m sat here oblivious to the fact?

Four teams beat Man City this year by not checking bank balances when they got off the team bus and everyone else didn’t consult their Financial Director before having at least a couple shots on or off target against them.

Like i said. I expect us to get beat and there is no shame in that at all. For all the reasons you list. We are a team though that always used to have a right good go at teams, bomb at them. Yes you take a tanking, but we have taken plenty of those this year sitting deep so what’s the difference. What we have lost is that ability to blitz a top team, shock them and beat them 4-3 like we did Liverpool when we were more expansive, camped in their half. Even Chelsea, which was amazing don’t get me wrong, was done with minimal possession.
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I'll take minimal possession every game if it gets results like that :)

Personally I think we've had to adapt because teams are not letting us attack them like we did where we'd tear them apart with pace down the wing, etc. You could say as some have that we got found out 18 months ago and I do think EH has adapted slightly to that. You'll still get great goals like that but many teams this season came to Dean Court and didn't allow us the space teams had in the past. Look how certain teams come to our place and barely come out of their half. When they do we get a West Ham or Watford type game.

You picked the bad games we had against the top 6, i picked the good ones! Sorry but just because you lose against a team doesn't mean you didn't go at them. Man Utd at home? They considered themselves very lucky. Arsenal at home, Brooks goal was onside for a 2-0 lead, I'd consider that going at them. Spurs at home we weren't sat defensive and had plenty of chances before they had Son sent off. Man City at home we may well have not had any shots but we came a decent Boruc save away from a point. I accept that Liverpool both home and away were poor but I was at Old Trafford and the Emirates and I'd only agree that Arsenal was truly dreadful. Possibly the poorest Bournemouth performance in the PL.

Just because we have £600m means zip. That's been proven to have been spent on wages and personnel. It doesn't necessarily transform like that onto the pitch. The league is littered with teams that have spent and received far more than that and done far worse. I think we're doing exceptionally myself. This last years transfers have been superb and hopefully this summer that will continue if we're to compete with the teams from 7th to 20th.
 
I don’t have a problem with minimal possession. It’s perfectly possible to control a game with 35% of the ball if it’s a tactical choice to allow an opponent to have the ball in unthreatening areas.

What l’m seeing signs of in some games is a lack of possession due to simply being unable to keep the ball. Injuries to our better ball players hasn’t helped and neither has the insistence on a midfield 2.

If we want to improve next year, we need to find a midfielder who can take the sting out of a game with short accurate passes. Doesn’t mean we need to go full on Tiki Taka for 90 mins, just at certain moments in a game where we need to take the pressure off the defence.
 
Neil Dawson said:
If I had one wish for this club it would be to start thinking beyond ‘we used to play Grimsby’ and to start to think like a PL club on and off the field. Improve the facilities, stop the endless nepotistic coaching appointments, attack the FA Cup one year. Start going at teams again. Let’s not become a West Brom let’s go back to the Eddie trademark football.
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There's so much wrong with this its difficult to know where to start.

The club are doing what they can to improve on and off the field. The ambition is to improve the points tally each season. It hasn't always happened but I don't see that as not thinking like a PL club. We've had a steady, if unspectacular four seasons in the Premier League. But the successes are going to be incremental as we get higher.

Off the field things may have stalled, but I'd bet things are a lot more complicated in terms of trying to find investors than just citing a lack of ambition.

The nepotistic coaching appointments? By that you mean people who EH has worked with and trusts. It isn't really nepotism. Eddie has shaped his entire staff around building that team. I don't see any evidence that its failing. Actually, you tell me where it is failing.

FA Cup? OK, I'll give you that one.

You'll have to tell me if Eddies trademark football was achieved with 4-4-2 or 3-5-1 or whatever. Either way I believe we scored more goals than any other team outside the top six.
 
...I am sure that given our recent record Eddie Howe deserves the benefit of the doubt as to whether he should be our manager :)

Clearly not all things go to plan, do they ever for anyone in their jobs?

Yes some decisions and transfers have proven dubious and not worked out, but then that is the same fro EVERY other club even Liverpool and Man City...

As fans it is easy to expect instant success in The Pl because it is crucial to our survival..so Ibe...Solanke...Mepham...Simpson...Rico and Begovic have all come under scrutiny for their efforts, where as in the past we had time to bed in the likes of Pugh...Francis...Daniels and Steve Cook.

If we can finish 14th every season then I would take that at the very least, because there will come a time when we will be fighting relegation unless we still try an invest in talent like Lewis Cook...Josh King...Ryan Fraser...Adam Smith...David Brooks and Jefferson Lerma...

I think that it is harsh to really criticise Howe for much that he has done tbh...and hope that he sticks around for a long time...

The lessons are evident with the likes of Hughton losing his job and where taht may leave Brighton in the future?
 
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