So, what happened?

DJ

Moderator
#61
Towards the end of the season, most people were convinced Eddie was off even if we stayed up.

If that was the case back then, why does there now need to have been a falling out, a sacking or worse for him to have left?
Because after the Everton game it sounded like he was going to stay and all those with their finger on the pulse thought he was going to stay.

Not telling the players before the announcement feels very un-Eddie like as well. It just doesn’t feel like a natural ending, it feels weird.

Now that could be the fault of one side or the other. Did the board fight as hard as they should for him to have stayed or is Howe in such a head space that he’s had to walk away.

The one thing I do agree on with blandford is that we are unlikely to ever know. But that doesn’t stop the discussion.

Just like having no influence or no real knowledge behind a thousand topics on here doesn’t stop the discussion.
 
#62
I’ve worked in jobs where the hours are stupidly long and you can only take it for so long even if he was on a fair whack of money. Money isn’t everything.

People tend to forget it was well documented Eddie used to be at the ground by 7am every morning and leave very late. He wouldn’t see his family much and lockdown gave him the opportunity to have what he had missed out of for years. I don’t believe there was anything else going on other than he felt he had let the club down and wasn’t sure he was the right man to take us up again and wanted a well deserved rest
Bang on
 
#63
What about this, needed to go down, sell all the stars players to clear the debt, people who wanted to buys us in January come back and invest when not so much debt on club, hey presto investor for new ground
So the best way to sell is to devalue the club with a relegation, lose a highly rated manager and then devalue the players by selling after relegation!!!

I don't think I want the sort of investor that couldn't figure out it's better to have bought in Dec, sold the players in Jan at best value inc Fraser for bargain rather than nothing, and then taken a gamble on the younger lads to stay up.

Ignore the debt, it is the net value of the club that matters, and the rate at which that changes due to losses and interest, and the drop in leagues. The upside of the smallest stadium is less lost revenue and in relative terms the parachute payments give us a bigger advantage.
 
#64
IMO, I think Eddie fell out of love for the job, not the club.

It has been a difficult 18 months, but no one will take away from what he achieved for us, and i truly believe no manager in football league history will repeat it.

However, he does look tired, and liked what has been said before, I imagine he did enjoy lockdown with his family.

Whilst we remember the incredible things this man has achieved, we have to remember his most expensive, costly squad, got relegated so there must be a problem somewhere.

An internal appointment would be a disaster in my opinion
I am glad you added IMO because I thought for minute this a fact based investigation rather a forum that's all about opinions!

His 'most expensive' squad spent a large part of the year injured or recovering from injury. Plus it's only expensive by our historical standards, but nothing when you consider the money spent by top 6.

Fulham managed to make an internal appointment work with less coaching experience work, by keeping the right players. They were much worse than us when they were relegated IMO!!!
 

Neil Dawson

Fans' Favourite
#65
Yes because it’s been a whole three days already.

I think people should be able to discuss the departure of our best ever manager for as long as they like.
Unless they want to talk tactics or signings in which case it does suddenly become dull and repetitive. Eulogies only please...
 
#66
I would suggest Eddie didn't rush to a decision, behaving like most rationale people he thought it through.

Then his status with fans, means resigning was too hard and sacking him not wise. So like grown ups the club and he agreed to part ways with no fault or blame needing to be declared, an amicable divorce if you like. Also, making it easier to return one day.

What it seems everyone is desperate to know is how willing either of the parties were to convince the other to take a different course. I doubt Ed wanted to make them sack him for a big payoff or the Board willing to take such a hard-line, so could and should have more been done to keep him, and would it have made a difference.

My other question is why did Tindall and Purches get their Pro licences, if not to give the club viable continuity options, plus letting Molesley be part of the set-up and manage Weymouth seems calculated.

Rather than being a please save my staff conversation, which frankly you can't control once you leave, maybe it's been a plan for a while if a big club came in for him. Then they discussed if Eddie felt the team were ready to step up under these different circumstances. And if not, would/could he help get things set up before leaving later on. Maybe this, maybe that.

It begins to sound more like a modern business dealing with managers in transition than a football club that fires everyone and starts again, so maybe that's why nobody gets it without a different frame of reference.
 
#67
I would suggest Eddie didn't rush to a decision, behaving like most rationale people he thought it through.

Then his status with fans, means resigning was too hard and sacking him not wise. So like grown ups the club and he agreed to part ways with no fault or blame needing to be declared, an amicable divorce if you like. Also, making it easier to return one day.

What it seems everyone is desperate to know is how willing either of the parties were to convince the other to take a different course. I doubt Ed wanted to make them sack him for a big payoff or the Board willing to take such a hard-line, so could and should have more been done to keep him, and would it have made a difference.

My other question is why did Tindall and Purches get their Pro licences, if not to give the club viable continuity options, plus letting Molesley be part of the set-up and manage Weymouth seems calculated.

Rather than being a please save my staff conversation, which frankly you can't control once you leave, maybe it's been a plan for a while if a big club came in for him. Then they discussed if Eddie felt the team were ready to step up under these different circumstances. And if not, would/could he help get things set up before leaving later on. Maybe this, maybe that.

It begins to sound more like a modern business dealing with managers in transition than a football club that fires everyone and starts again, so maybe that's why nobody gets it without a different frame of reference.

Good points.

Liverpool in the 80's used to promote from within - that was pretty successful
 
#69
Good points.

Liverpool in the 80's used to promote from within - that was pretty successful
Exactly, Paisley, Fagin and Evans all barely heard of before they became managers of the best team in Europe for well over a decade.

Even after that they went for Dalglish and Souness.

This growing ifrom within with ex players never works does it?

That extra 20% you give because you actually are emotionally invested, makes the difference.

Before someone (Neil) says, but they haven't got PL experience etc, its all relative to where you have come from, and what you can afford.

Tale of two JTs.

If John Terry comes in, whats his motivation? All about him and a stepping stone to move on as quickly as possible. No continuity.

Jason, and maybe Purches, carry on with tweaks.

I dont care how many mistakes Eddie made with tactics etc, because ultimately he so over achieved, that no-one else would have even been there to make them, for half a fucking decade.
 

Neil Dawson

Fans' Favourite
#70
Exactly, Paisley, Fagin and Evans all barely heard of before they became managers of the best team in Europe for well over a decade.

Even after that they went for Dalglish and Souness.

This growing ifrom within with ex players never works does it?

That extra 20% you give because you actually are emotionally invested, makes the difference.

Before someone (Neil) says, but they haven't got PL experience etc, its all relative to where you have come from, and what you can afford.

Tale of two JTs.

If John Terry comes in, whats his motivation? All about him and a stepping stone to move on as quickly as possible. No continuity.

Jason, and maybe Purches, carry on with tweaks.

I dont care how many mistakes Eddie made with tactics etc, because ultimately he so over achieved, that no-one else would have even been there to make them, for half a fucking decade.
I agree with you on John Terry and don’t think he comes across intelligently enough or has the right morals and values to be an effective boss.

My issue with our JT is that he also doesn’t come across intelligently enough when interviewed and I’ve heard some players views on him. He’s a really decent number two and foil for Eddie. The only thing in his favour is keeping him gives continuity of all the staff in a very short summer recess. To my mind that’s not enough reason to not try and find another Eddie.
 
#71
I agree with you on John Terry and don’t think he comes across intelligently enough or has the right morals and values to be an effective boss.

My issue with our JT is that he also doesn’t come across intelligently enough when interviewed and I’ve heard some players views on him. He’s a really decent number two and foil for Eddie. The only thing in his favour is keeping him gives continuity of all the staff in a very short summer recess. To my mind that’s not enough reason to not try and find another Eddie.
Completely agree with this.
 
#74
It will all be speculation but I have a number of thoughts:

Eddie has always wanted control of the buying and selling of players. Max allowed him to do that. The team that has just been relegated was his team, his players and his staff, not people parachuted in by a director of football.

Eddie knew we had a choice of spending money on players or infrastructure, we couldn’t do both. Rightly in my opinion, we spent it on players to try to stay in the PL

One of the reasons Eddie hasn‘t appeared to consider other roles previously could well be that no other club would give him that control.

The reality is Eddie has overseen the relegation of the most talented squad we have ever had. That squad should not have ended up in the bottom three. Eddie took us to places we never dreamed of, for which we will be forever grateful, but we cannot hide that for the past 18 months more of the performances have been poor rather than decent. We can blame the players but he has the responsibility to get that out of them. you cannot fail to view this (season) as failure.

The fact we don’t have a ready made replacement would suggest a Max wasn’t expecting this. Max has proven himself to be supportive of Eddie numerous times in the past. Most owners would have sacked him several times over given recent form. Max stood by him.

Tactically, Eddie has been found to be less brilliant than we thought at this level, his stock has dropped. Did he want to risk it declining further if he couldn’t get us back up?

My guess is Max is prepared to bank roll the club still but wanted some changes, perhaps adopting a more “first team coach” rather than old school manager. Perhaps he wanted him to off load some of the “old boys” coaching staff? They have responsibility too. Perhaps it was team or infrastructure and Eddie didn’t like it?

Regardless, we are where we are largely because of Eddie but that would have been impossible without Max’s money so I think talk of doing more to keep Eddie needs to be put in the context of we have just been relegated, poor football, his team & his players. Wenger. Went on too long, did Eddie too?
I think what you have said is likely, but as we where not present at any of the meetings this is speculation. I think Eddie is a honourable man & was devastated by the relegation. He thought that it was probably his fault and therefore did what he thought at the time was right.
Max is much the same as Eddie his thoughts where much the same, they both wanted the same thing to continue in the premiership. But due to poor results they both where very disapppointed. I think Max was as surprised as most of us that Eddie chose to leave, they had a good working relationship. Max statement after the end of the season to want to return to the premier league I think was genuine.
I think various things probably made Eddie make his decision, these we will probably never know. But I wish him all the best & luck in anything he chooses to do in the future. He is the best manager this club has had, taking the club to the top flight. He for filled all of our dreams to compete at this level, seeing the best clubs at the vitality stadium.
I just hope the board make the right decision choosing a replacement manager, also one day returning to the premiership.
 
#75
I've been thinking about this since the weekend. Takes some time to order thoughts. There are some things I can't make sense of.

I'm sure there is more to all this than meets the eye. If Eddie had decided to go if we went down then I reckon he would have told the players after the Everton game and announced it that day or the next.

If he was undecided, what did he need to know that would help him make his mind up one way or the other?

Either he was keen to stay and the board weren't or he wanted certain guarantees and didn't get them. I can't believe that there wasn't some conversation between him and the board before last week. If so the board have been very remiss.

It is odd that he seemed not to confide in anyone at the club, they all seemed to be genuinely shocked. Also it was surprising that Kris Temple was so shocked.

It also seems odd that there has been no succession planning from within, apparently.

Something happened that Eddie didn't anticipate.

I know that there have been a number of threads and this is one more.

But there's something that doesn't fit.

Last time I felt like this was not long after Max took over. I was trying to figure why he would buy the club and the (entirely implausible) conclusion was that he was aiming for the premier league. That seemed impossible at the time, but it was the only reason that made sense.

So, thank you for your indulgence. I will remain both puzzled and open minded for the foreseeable.
Looking at the man for the games post lock down,he was gone.
I have witnessed this firsthand in organisations. The hardwork Of Howe will only cover up so much for so long, and ultimately adds to the problemHe has probably gone because he was mentally burnt out, the evidence points to that.Also, the prospect of no time off and straight into the same again with similar players did not appeal.
 
#76
Eddie was the best manager this club has had, or will have for many years.
I wonder if he has rushed into this, feeling he has failed. In mu opinion he hasn't, and when he has had a break and gathered his thoughts, if I was the owner I would ask him to come back.