The Players...

The fact that last night probably was our biggest game yet due to recent slump, playing the team directly above us, a win would really set the ships course AND it was Reading.....
I was really hoping we would see this in the application of the players and the hunger would be evident.

Hugely disappointing and, in my mind, just points to some of the players not wanting/unable to buy in to the team because, in their minds, their future is else where.
 
I expect our players all got home and had a serious look at themselves in the mirror and said “We Must Do Better”.

Then convened an emergency meeting amongst themselves to have a plan to beat Wednesday on Tuesday night.

So we can look towards a much Improved team performance and hopefully a win. ;)
 
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These are my thoughts, am I talking ****************?

I agree with most of that (although I want King out so it’s Solanke/Danjuma/Surridge there for me and I would like to see Zemura get a run though admittedly that could fall flat after one appearance). Saw someone else post elsewhere that changing the centre midfield could be a key change and I agree - hoping Pearson and Wilshere are a catalyst for change, certainly think the likes of Pearson and Stacey are the future of our side - need players with hunger and drive rather than “names” who think they are better then they are
 
Those players who are failing to give their all every time they step onto the pitch are 'defrauding' the club, their team-mates and the supporters. I doubt looking in a mirror and thinking 'must do better' will ever occur to them because they think they are elite footballers and it's never their fault if we lose. Trouble is that on recent performances they are far from that!
 
I guess bed wetting is allowed now.
It’s so easy to be an Uber supporter when the teams winning . Now is the time for support and your one of the first rats to leave the sinking ship .
Lol...whats the matter?....is someone pointing out that not every poor performance is down to the manager not in keeping with the vital bedwetters agenda?
 
I expect our players all got home and had a serious look at themselves in the mirror and said “We Must Do Better”.

Then convened an emergency meeting amongst themselves to have a plan to beat Wednesday on Tuesday night.

So we can look towards a much Improved team performance and hopefully a win. ;)
What like when last season resumed after the first lock down and our fate was still in our hands ?
 
So.....3 at the back is to blame we said.....So JT Started with a
back 4..
So......2 in midfield gets overrun we said....it's so obvious.....So JT plays the 3 in midfield ...
So.....Brooks is playing shite we said......So JT drops Brooks.
So.....Playing a right footed player at left back doesn't work....it's so obvious......So JT plays Rico.

So.......what exactly did JT get wrong last night;?......genuine question.

First it was Eddie .....442 doesn't work was the cry.....it's so obvious.....now people on here are calling for it again.
Now it's JTs turn.....whatever he does somebody will know of a better way of doing it.....there's a saying in my game .... 'everyone thinks they know how to cure a kicking horse apart from the man who owns it'....
Sometimes the reality is the horse is just a wrong un......it doesn't matter how you train them or how well you treat them they will never fulfil their potential.

Only the players can turn this around.....if they have the character to do so.

Remember the team Howe took over from Groves? Same group of players, totally different level of performance.
 
Remember the team Howe took over from Groves? Same group of players, totally different level of performance.
You're talking about two extremes though.......the best manager we've ever had and the worst.......we'd have to hire Pep Guardiola for a similar comparison to hold any merit now!...................we also have to remember that this set of players didn't perform any better for Eddie last season than they are for JT.
 
You're talking about two extremes though.......the best manager we've ever had and the worst.......we'd have to hire Pep Guardiola for a similar comparison to hold any merit now!...................we also have to remember that this set of players didn't perform any better for Eddie last season than they are for JT.

Not really, I'd expect most of the managers named in this thread would do a better job than Tindall with this squad.
 
So you'd expect most of the managers named in this thread would do a better job than Eddie did as well then?
Again, your logic doesn’t make sense. It is perfectly possible to believe that the managers listed would be better than Tindall but not as good as Eddie.
 
Again, your logic doesn’t make sense. It is perfectly possible to believe that the managers listed would be better than Tindall but not as good as Eddie.
I'll say it again......These players didn't perform any better for Eddie than they have fr JT........let that sink in.......................................................So any manager on that list would have to be capable of doing a better job than Eddie did...........does that not sound logical?
 
I'll say it again......These players didn't perform any better for Eddie than they have fr JT........let that sink in.......................................................So any manager on that list would have to be capable of doing a better job than Eddie did...........does that not sound logical?
That is highly debatable and nowhere near as black and white as you are making out. For a start Eddie did not have Danjuma and Brooks available for the majority of last season, he also had to deal with a want away Fraser who clearly had a toxic influence on the squad. That is even before mentioning that it is virtually impossible to compare the comparative performances from this season to last due to the enormous gulf in quality between the two divisions. Do you honestly believe we wouldn’t have performed better with Eddie in charge this season?
 
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As much as I'm feeling very against Tindall right now, there is a big part of me that thinks a lot of this is on the players. It doesn't matter what formation you play when you have the first touch of a trampoline. A complete lack of the basic ability to control the ball and find teammates with simple passes is not on Tindall- we saw the same thing last season with EH.

You can also factor in that, as lukewarm as our performances have been for most of the season, every other time we had a disappointing game we did bounce back with something decent the next game. Idk what more you can do when the players consistently need babying and picking up from bad individual performances across the board against mediocre teams. Even within games, the amount of times we've had a shite first half and then turned it around somewhat proves to me that, at least in some instances, the players are simply not doing what they're told, are given a bollocking, and then turn it around.

Does JT need to take responsibility for this? Absolutely, he's in charge and the players theoretically play the way they are set out to by the manager. But some of these individual performances from these players have been absolutely diabolical. In terms of what I'd like to see next, well:

------------Begovic------------
Stacey---Cook---Kelly---Rico
------Pearson----L. Cook------
Brooks-----Wilshere-----Junior
--------------King--------------

I think, on current *cough* form, this is what I would like to see. I've bolded the players that I would feel comfortable starting every game, and are the closest thing I can call a spine. Begovic and Cook have been good, L. Cook has mostly been good, Stacey isn't world class but I believe in him to be honest and always put in a shift, and Junior atm seems to guarantee some kind of goal or assist, with Danjuma providing competition there.

The areas in red are what I would consider problem areas that need addressing, whether it be internally or through the transfer market. I don't think Cook has a good partner in defence, Mepham has on the whole been poor, Kelly has been shunted from position to position and suffered for it greatly, CCV has been OK but not inspiring IMO. Ironically, and I hate to tell some of you, but Cook's most consistent partner in terms of defence has been the departing Simpson. My gut is telling me that if we were to keep Kelly in LCB with Cook, that would eventually turn into a good partnership like it was in the PL.

Left Back is turning into a massive problem, but I think this has been self-inflicted in some ways. I know some of you don't like Rico, and yesterday was a Marcos Painter-esque performance, but I really do feel that if he had been given a solid run of games in one position, he would have settled in rather nicely. But we've flip-flopped formations and roles so often that our defence has no identity anymore. I do not think Smith at LB is the answer, I don't want to see it. He needs to be pushing Stacey for the RB slot and vice-versa. I would rather see Zemura there than Smith to be quite honest. I think we just need to bite the bullet and stick with Rico until he shows the player that I really do believe is in there, have Zemura be the back up, and keep Kelly as a CB. I might be wrong but that's the most logical solution I have.

RW is another problem area...Brooks is class, and I am hoping dropping him and the improved performance from the bench is a sign of a change in fortunes. Otherwise I think we might struggle unless we bring someone in, is Ritchie the answer? Perhaps...perhaps not.

Finally, I don't think we can count on Solanke to fire us to promotion, he's simply too inconsistent and fragile in terms of confidence. I don't even blame him that much, he's always had the price tag hanging over him, and his general play this season has been quite good. I might be being harsh on him, idk. King is a very good player IF he turns up, but can we count on him to do that? Surridge is too limited a player to be starting for us, hasn't shown enough consistently to be taken seriously as an option.

These are the question marks I have with some of the players; you might agree, you might disagree. I think Pearson, by reputation alone, should replace Billing and the underratedly shite Lerma of the past 18 months. Wilshere is self evident, and should be the creative midfielder we need. And I'm sure that even Gosling, if he doesn't join Watford or something, will play a role with his winning combination of no skill and sheer force of effort.

These are my thoughts, am I talking ****************?

Agree with a lot of this, disagree with parts, which I think of course is the point.

On the defence, I agree the left-back role is the troublesome spot. There is a reason why no matter how many left-backs we signed Charlie Daniels was always the cream that rose to the top. He has thus far proved underrated and irreplaceable.

You mentioned Matt Ritchie as someone who could fix the right-wing, he's more likely to be the one to fix the left-back problem.

I like either Adam Smith or Jack Stacey at full-back, I think Steve Cook and Lloyd Kelly given time to form an actual partnership would look very accomplished. Chris Mepham in support or the next option if we revert to a back three. Everything looks ok there, if given a consistent run and protection from the midfield.

Up front I think Solanke has proven he is the better number 9 over King and offers far more to the team in regards to build-up play and link up, which invariably creates more chances.

Junior Stanislas, Danjuma, David Brooks and Joshua King in wide or more central positions behind Solanke will offer support, especially with Jack Wilshere central as well.

The central midfield dynamics is a real conundrum, Lewis Cook, Jefferson Lerma, Philip Billing, three midfielders who have cost a combined £50million, who on paper look like they should complement each other, but has never clicked, has never raised the tempo, has never looked like working. The balance just isn't there together collectively on the pitch, even though it looks like it should be!
 
That is highly debatable and nowhere near as black and white as you are making out. For a start Eddie did not have Danjuma and Brooks available for the majority of last season, he also had to deal with a want away Fraser who clearly had a toxic influence on the squad. That is even before mentioning that it is virtually impossible to compare the comparative performances from this season to last due to the enormous gulf in quality between the two divisions. Do you honestly believe we wouldn’t have performed better with Eddie in charge this season?
And yet any criticism of JT is apparently not debatable?.........an absence Danjuma or Brooks hasn't excused JT of any criticism this season has it?......is a want away King any different to the Fraser situation?.........there might be a gulf in quality but the general consensus was that the squad was too good to go down........yet we did.........just as the general consensus was that this squad was more than good enough for automatic promotion......yet we're not............was the performance at home to Newcastle at the end of last season ...with the likes of Brooks and Danjuma in the team btw....any better than the performance on Friday?..........nah.
 
And yet any criticism of JT is apparently not debatable?.........an absence Danjuma or Brooks hasn't excused JT of any criticism this season has it?......is a want away King any different to the Fraser situation?.........there might be a gulf in quality but the general consensus was that the squad was too good to go down........yet we did.........just as the general consensus was that this squad was more than good enough for automatic promotion......yet we're not............was the performance at home to Newcastle at the end of last season ...with the likes of Brooks and Danjuma in the team btw....any better than the performance on Friday?..........nah.
The problem for JT is that whether you like to admit it or not, the championship is a hugely inferior standard and he finds himself with a team that most certainly has the pedigree to succeed. I can count on one hand the number of times that we have actually played well this season and for the tools that is unacceptable. Eddie had to cope with the circumstances you describe and still find a way of competing against the elite, JT does not. And I’m not sure where this ‘too good to go down’ thing comes from, anyone who believed this at any point last season was naive to say the least. Far more talented squads than ours had been relegated before.
 
And I’m not sure where this ‘too good to go down’ thing comes from, anyone who believed this at any point last season was naive to say the least. Far more talented squads than ours had been relegated before.
I think you’ll find most of the players thought it right up to the moment Villa took the point off West Ham.
 

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