The Players...

Looking back at some of the players involved in taking us up through the leagues and the fees we paid and what those players did to help bring us through the leagues and ‘wanted it’.

These players showed they wanted to play for the team, probably missed some off.


Simon Francis - Free

Steve Cook - £150,000

Marc Pugh - £100,000

Tommy Elphick - Undisclosed

Charlie Daniels - £200,000

The Big Man

Brett Pitman

Andrew Surman

Harry Arter
 
Last edited:
Waz afcb said:
The problem for JT is that whether you like to admit it or not, the championship is a hugely inferior standard and he finds himself with a team that most certainly has the pedigree to succeed. I can count on one hand the number of times that we have actually played well this season and for the tools that is unacceptable. Eddie had to cope with the circumstances you describe and still find a way of competing against the elite, JT does not. And I’m not sure where this ‘too good to go down’ thing comes from, anyone who believed this at any point last season was naive to say the least. Far more talented squads than ours had been relegated before.
Click to expand...
Well if the Squad wasn't too good to go down why would it be deemed good enough for automatic promotion?......JT must be doing ok then......it would be incredibly naïve to think we should be walking this league if you didn't think we should have stayed up last season.....did you not criticise Eddie pretty much every time we lost last season btw?......it's alright saying that the PL is a superior league but the fact is that what JT is apparently failing at is fininshing in the top 2..... not just surviving .......is gaining automatic promotion from the Championship any easier than just surviving in the PL?

The fact is the players have massively under performed for both Eddie AND Jason...........if think an inferior manager to Eddie will come in and turn things around then you're living in dreamland.........as i've said only the players will turn this around.
 
Do the players believe they were too good to go down and now too good not to go up. The championship winning team was built on hard grant and togetherness sadly to date I don't see those qualities in the present team more preoccupied with the money going into the bank.
 
fritter said:
It’s simple, he hasn’t got them playing as a team. There is no real plan or organisation, other than playing ok for ten minutes and waiting for the other team to score. In terms of last night I think wilshere should have started instead of cook. If he can’t last a game then he should start and go off after an hour or so.
Click to expand...
Absaloute ********************************. The manager needs to take responsibility. If the players aren't working for him then that's down to the outcome of what the manager has done. Its getting on my nerves how people are avoiding how out of his depth he is by blaming it all on the players. Apparently every single player isn't working for him according to these boards. So either the clubs went out of their way to hire only players with bad attitudes or something has happened somewhere down the line to make them all act in the exact same manner. The majority of the blame lies with the manager.

Edit; quoted wrong post. Apologies
 
CherriesOnTop said:
Absaloute ********************************. The manager needs to take responsibility. If the players aren't working for him then that's down to the outcome of what the manager has done. Its getting on my nerves how people are avoiding how out of his depth he is by blaming it all on the players. Apparently every single player isn't working for him according to these boards. So either the clubs went out of their way to hire only players with bad attitudes or something has happened somewhere down the line to make them all act in the exact same manner. The majority of the blame lies with the manager.

Edit; quoted wrong post. Apologies
Click to expand...
OK so JT is out of his depth .....if you believe that's why the players are under performing thats fine.........so what are your thoughts on why these same players under performed last season under Eddie?
 
Topfarrier said:
OK so JT is out of his depth .....if you believe that's why the players are under performing thats fine.........so what are your thoughts on why these same players under performed last season under Eddie?
Click to expand...
The exact same reason. Eddie was to blame. The only difference is Eddie had enough about him to turn it around. Jason doesn't. What do you think about the beginning of the season when we were in and amongst the top?

Were the players underperfroming then? Or somewhere down the line did something change?

Did they all magically underperform at the same time, or was it a gradual thing?

If he is playing underperforming players with a bad attitude. What's his excuse for playing them when they continue to underperform? Why isn't he dropping them and letting them know that if they continue to do so they will rot away along with their careers?

There are many variables to this but these are my thoughts in a nut shell
 
Every person makes decisions in life. It is Jason's decisions why we are in this situation. If a bad apple is in my fruit bowl I remove it before it turns the rest of the fruit bad.

Edit; this is something Eddie 100% got wrong with Fraser
 
CherriesOnTop said:
The exact same reason. Eddie was to blame. The only difference is Eddie had enough about him to turn it around. Jason doesn't. What do you think about the beginning of the season when we were in and amongst the top?

Were the players underperfroming then? Or somewhere down the line did something change?

Did they all magically underperform at the same time, or was it a gradual thing?

If he is playing underperforming players with a bad attitude. What's his excuse for playing them when they continue to underperform? Why isn't he dropping them and letting them know that if they continue to do so they will rot away along with their careers?

There are many variables to this but these are my thoughts in a nut shell
Click to expand...
But Eddie didn't turn it around did he?.......and any manager we get to replace JT isn't going to be in Eddie's league.........i thought at the start of the season that we did well to get points on the board without really playing to our full potential.......but i thought thats ok we just need to get a foothold in this league before kicking on..... but when the season started to get tough a number of our players have gone missing ....just like they did last season at crucial times.......that had nothing to do with Eddie and it has nothing to do with JT......thats down to the players........you can blame managers for a lot of things tactics... formations etc but none of that matters if individual performances are as poor as they were on Friday.....
 
Topfarrier said:
But Eddie didn't turn it around did he?.......and any manager we get to replace JT isn't going to be in Eddie's league.........i thought at the start of the season that we did well to get points on the board without really playing to our full potential.......but i thought thats ok we just need to get a foothold in this league before kicking on..... but when the season started to get tough a number of our players have gone missing ....just like they did last season at crucial times.......that had nothing to do with Eddie and it has nothing to do with JT......thats down to the players........you can blame managers for a lot of things tactics... formations etc but none of that matters if individual performances are as poor as they were on Friday.....
Click to expand...
No he didn't, I never said he did. What was he given, half a season to turn it around? As red flags weren't being shown until around Christmas if I remember correctly? I have no doubt in my mind if Eddie was here we would be fighting for automatic promotion.

I say Eddie has it in him to turn it around as he had proved it before at the beginning of his second spell.

You seem to be brushing over the points I made earlier.

Why is he continuing to play players that are not putting in 100% effort? Surely the blame lies with him for these players being put on the football pitch?

Please explain how they can go from putting in satisfactory performances at the beginning of the season to all of a sudden all going to the dark side and putting zero effort in all at the same time if there isn't some sort of common denominator that caused it?
 
CherriesOnTop said:
No he didn't, I never said he did. What was he given, half a season to turn it around? As red flags weren't being shown until around Christmas if I remember correctly? I have no doubt in my mind if Eddie was here we would be fighting for automatic promotion.

I say Eddie has it in him to turn it around as he had proved it before at the beginning of his second spell.

You seem to be brushing over the points I made earlier.

Why is he continuing to play players that are not putting in 100% effort? Surely the blame lies with him for these players being put on the football pitch?

Please explain how they can go from putting in satisfactory performances at the beginning of the season to all of a sudden all going to the dark side and putting zero effort in all at the same time if there isn't some sort of common denominator that caused it?
Click to expand...
LOL who mentioned zero effort? ......you've just made that up......I said they were UNDER PERFORMING......in fact i dont know if it has anything to do with effort at all.....you can certainly see they are trying.........it's to do with a lack of character and a lack of on field leadership imo.......we're fine when on top of teams but the minute we face any hardship we fold.......the players are responsible for their own performance levels.....nobody else......blaming the manager for all our problems is such simplistic thinking and besides we don't know if JT 'has it in him' to turn it around yet or not do we?
 
I think Tindall has his own ideas on what’s not currently working. In the summer transfer window he seemed happy enough with the squad, but he doesn’t now. If you take the general flavour from his interviews then the team doesn’t have enough on pitch character to grind out performances when it’s not going to plan. He sees the squad as being young and inexperienced in certain departments.
I think it was the same problem last year.

Yes he could drop some of these players, which he had to a degree regarding starting line ups, but I guess he is hoping it will come good.

I’m happy to see him continue and at least give him a chance to show us if he can get it going again or not. This team is still in a transitional period and as much as we might like to think they are all solely focused on getting promoted this season with Bournemouth, I suspect there are quite a few starting 11 who are actively seeking new employers which is an extremely tricky position for any manager.

A new manager might get a response from some but I don’t think the potential positives out weigh the potential negatives at the moment.
 
Topfarrier said:
LOL who mentioned zero effort? ......you've just made that up......I said they were UNDER PERFORMING......in fact i dont know if it has anything to do with effort at all.....you can certainly see they are trying.........it's to do with a lack of character and a lack of on field leadership imo.......we're fine when on top of teams but the minute we face any hardship we fold.......the players are responsible for their own performance levels.....nobody else......blaming the manager for all our problems is such simplistic thinking and besides we don't know if JT 'has it in him' to turn it around yet or not do we?
Click to expand...
If you read back to my original post I said 'apparently, according to these boards' I was generalising from what I've read on these boards. Again, I also mentioned them under performing in the post after so I don't really know what you're going on about there. Please don't just pick and chose when it suits you.

It is a simplistic view to think it is up to the players solely for their own performance level. A manager is there for them to help reach their potential. That is quite literally one of the main reasons a manager is hired. It is why top teams spend millions on sport psychologists every year. To be able to galvanise a squad and work together as a team is an art, it is shown time and time again throughout world football. Again, I reference Eddie and his second spell. He got that team playing football through nothing but him helping them raise their performance levels.

Also again, I will rephrase as to not get a slightly irritated answer from you again.

Why is Jason playing players that are under performing week in week out? Who in your words lack character and leadership? He is responsible for the decision to play them is he not?

Why has this only started to become a problem in the last month or two and not at the beginning of the season? Those same people who lack leadership and character were playing in the team when we were 1st/2nd were they not?
 
Last edited:
Topfarrier said:
LOL who mentioned zero effort? ......you've just made that up......I said they were UNDER PERFORMING......in fact i dont know if it has anything to do with effort at all.....you can certainly see they are trying.........it's to do with a lack of character and a lack of on field leadership imo.......we're fine when on top of teams but the minute we face any hardship we fold.......the players are responsible for their own performance levels.....nobody else......blaming the manager for all our problems is such simplistic thinking and besides we don't know if JT 'has it in him' to turn it around yet or not do we?
Click to expand...
No need to respond so sarcastically all the time pal
 
hba1 said:
Do the players believe they were too good to go down and now too good not to go up. The championship winning team was built on hard grant and togetherness sadly to date I don't see those qualities in the present team more preoccupied with the money going into the bank.
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
CherriesOnTop said:
If you read back to my original post I said 'apparently, according to these boards' I was generalising from what I've read on these boards. Again, I also mentioned them under performing in the post after so I don't really know what you're going on about there. Please don't just pick and chose when it suits you.

It is a simplistic view to think it is up to the players for their own performance level. A manager is there for them to help reach their potential. That is quite literally one of the main reasons a manager is hired. It is why top teams spend millions on sport psychologists every year. To be able to galvanise a squad and work together as a team is an art, it is shown time and time again throughout world football. Again, I reference Eddie and his second spell. He got that team playing football through nothing but him raising their performance levels.

Also again, I will rephrase as to not get a slightly irritated answer from you again.

Why is Jason playing players that are under performing week in week out? Who in your words lack character and leadership? He is responsible for the decision to play them is he not?

Why has this only started to become a problem in the last month or two and not at the beginning of the season? Those same people who lack leadership and character were playing in the team when we were 1st/2nd were they not?
Click to expand...

This is the question you asked me.....................
'Please explain how they can go from putting in satisfactory performances at the beginning of the season to all of a sudden all going to the dark side and putting zero effort in all at the same time if there isn't some sort of common denominator that caused it?'

If you are now saying you were 'generalising' from what you read on these boards then by all means go and ask that question to whoever it was that suggested it.

There are a few i can answer though..........firstly your question regarding why is JT playing players who are under performing ........obviously he can't drop them all but there are signs that he's losing patience with some of them....Brooks rightly got dropped for the reading game and certainly looked a lot more like himself when he did come on so it'll be interesting to see how JT deals with him going forward ............also i don't think it's a coincidence that we're trying to bring players in now either even though it may not have been the plan.

Secondary you asked why it had only become a problem in the last month or two'.......it's not about the last couple of months it's about our players not turning up in important games going back to last season....the performances after lockdown when our survial was really in the balance were embarrassing ......that's carried on into this season......when the pressure is on they don't deliver ...although there are some on here that will have you believe we've been cr@p from the first game of the season ......thats clearly nonsense because we've put in some decent performances............btw was JT responsible for those good performances?.......or just the bad ones?
 
Topfarrier said:
This is the question you asked me.....................
'Please explain how they can go from putting in satisfactory performances at the beginning of the season to all of a sudden all going to the dark side and putting zero effort in all at the same time if there isn't some sort of common denominator that caused it?'

If you are now saying you were 'generalising' from what you read on these boards then by all means go and ask that question to whoever it was that suggested it.

There are a few i can answer though..........firstly your question regarding why is JT playing players who are under performing ........obviously he can't drop them all but there are signs that he's losing patience with some of them....Brooks rightly got dropped for the reading game and certainly looked a lot more like himself when he did come on so it'll be interesting to see how JT deals with him going forward ............also i don't think it's a coincidence that we're trying to bring players in now either even though it may not have been the plan.

Secondary you asked why it had only become a problem in the last month or two'.......it's not about the last couple of months it's about our players not turning up in important games going back to last season....the performances after lockdown when our survial was really in the balance were embarrassing ......that's carried on into this season......when the pressure is on they don't deliver ...although there are some on here that will have you believe we've been cr@p from the first game of the season ......thats clearly nonsense because we've put in some decent performances............btw was JT responsible for those good performances?.......or just the bad ones?
Click to expand...
I generalised when I asked that question. That means I accumulated various things I've read. How can I ask one specific individual a generalised question? I asked you because we was in a direct conversation, you seem to be being very pedantic over a few choices of words.

Did he drop Brooks or is he being rested? only time will tell.

The players quality was the reason why we had a decent start. We have arguably the best squad in the division. The manager has been incapable of being able to keep it together. He has managed the players and their quality poorly and we have fell off the rails as a result. The players can not perform week in week out without being managed in the correct manner. Not to mention the tactical side of things.

My point is that it is the managers job is to get the players to play to their full potential. Players can only do so much themselves. Only players with an extremely good mindset like Ronaldo can push themselves far and beyond. 99% of professional players need people to help them tap into their sub conscious, people to help them go above and beyond their full potential. Eddie proved this time and time again by getting pretty average players into the Premier League. Yes his ship sunk but I had faith if he stayed he would of turned it around. For whatever reason Jason does not seem capable of this at all. He is getting the best squad in the league looking bang average. Yes we will have the odd game where we play well and score, because the quality is there. Jason is one of (not the only) people to blame for this poor mindset though. There are alot of other factors involved in this. I'm not saying he is the only reason but for me he is a massive factor in this.

I agree the players are to blame aswell but the main bulk of the blame lies with Jason and the results of HIS decisions.

His voice alone is enough to have people not listen to him. I've seen more personality on a dried up sponge.
 
billythekid said:
Looking back at some of the players involved in taking us up through the leagues and the fees we paid and what those players did to help bring us through the leagues and ‘wanted it’.

These players showed they wanted to play for the team, probably missed some off.


Simon Francis - Free

Steve Cook - £150,00

Marc Pugh - £100,00

Tommy Elphick - Undisclosed

Charlie Daniels - £200,000

The Big Man

Brett Pitman

Andrew Surman

Harry Arter
Click to expand...

That can’t be right - I thought that we bought every league we got promoted from and into ? Spending more of our Trillionaire owners’ money than the big six combined ?
 
CherriesOnTop said:
I generalised when I asked that question. That means I accumulated various things I've read. How can I ask one specific individual a generalised question? I asked you because we was in a direct conversation, you seem to be being very pedantic over a few choices of words.

Did he drop Brooks or is he being rested? only time will tell.

The players quality was the reason why we had a decent start. We have arguably the best squad in the division. The manager has been incapable of being able to keep it together. He has managed the players and their quality poorly and we have fell off the rails as a result. The players can not perform week in week out without being managed in the correct manner. Not to mention the tactical side of things.

My point is that it is the managers job is to get the players to play to their full potential. Players can only do so much themselves. Only players with an extremely good mindset like Ronaldo can push themselves far and beyond. 99% of professional players need people to help them tap into their sub conscious, people to help them go above and beyond their full potential. Eddie proved this time and time again by getting pretty average players into the Premier League. Yes his ship sunk but I had faith if he stayed he would of turned it around. For whatever reason Jason does not seem capable of this at all. He is getting the best squad in the league looking bang average. Yes we will have the odd game where we play well and score, because the quality is there. Jason is one of (not the only) people to blame for this poor mindset though. There are alot of other factors involved in this. I'm not saying he is the only reason but for me he is a massive factor in this.

I agree the players are to blame aswell but the main bulk of the blame lies with Jason and the results of HIS decisions.

His voice alone is enough to have people not listen to him. I've seen more personality on a dried up sponge.
Click to expand...

We may have been a conversation ......but that question had nothing to do with the conversation we were having!................why ask me a question 'generalised' or not about an opinion that i hadn't expressed?......go and find the person or persons that made the comments about the players lack of effort and ask them!...........why do you want to bother me with it?.......it's a bit weird tbh.

Oh btw i'll admit that i knew the answer to the question i asked you before i asked it...............the players are responsible for all the good performances and JT is responsible for all the sh1te ones!.......of course how could it be any different ...:slap:
I realise that they weren't your exact words but i'm 'generalising' a comment that you actually made!..........thats kinda how it works.
 
Topfarrier said:
We may have been a conversation ......but that question had nothing to do with the conversation we were having!................why ask me a question 'generalised' or not about an opinion that i hadn't expressed?......go and find the person or persons that made the comments about the players lack of effort and ask them!...........why do you want to bother me with it?.......it's a bit weird tbh.

Oh btw i'll admit that i knew the answer to the question i asked you before i asked it...............the players are responsible for all the good performances and JT is responsible for all the sh1te ones!.......of course how could it be any different ...:slap:
I realise that they weren't your exact words but i'm 'generalising' a comment that you actually made!..........thats kinda how it works.
Click to expand...
God knows what you're waffling on about now. You're more bothered about being pedantic over words. Again, trying to avoid remaining on topic and trying to avoid valid points being brought up. I'm still baffled about you saying the players are putting effort in whilst underperforming and it being all their fault. Seems strange to me that they can be putting effort in and still play so bad without it being at all the fault of the management team. I'm sure you'll find some more words to nit pick at. I'll not be replying now as you seem more interested in bringing up an off topic subject rather than the actual topic we begun with.
 
Helluva thread - good work, wish I'd seen it earlier.

Does it matter if it's the players or managers fault. Is it not the ethos of the club over recent times about being stronger together. The problem of looking for people to blame is that it rarely makes progress. I think the intent of the OP was to establish that it's not just the management that needs to improve so that we can look at what it would take.

I would say we are frustrated because as a total group we have shown in patches that we could be untouchable, while at other moments we have been so sloppy.

We will see if a young team and new manager have all been distracted by the Jan window, and one win and a few experienced heads is all that we needed.

If we are missing one thing it's probably that JT needs an experienced ex manager to call up from time to time, not part of team, not director of football, but someone who can help him get perspective at certain times. Therefore Woodgate helps but it's tough at he top if everyone expects you to have all the answers. It's no different in business, when things are going well, everybody contributes ideas to maintain momentum, but when you hit a patch everyone looks to the CEO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;