Thoughts on the match v Derby

kirsikka

kirsikka

UTC Legend
A match that could personify football cliché. Bottom of the table, points deductions, negative points plays (until the earlier matches) top of the table. Unless the obvious candidates for a win are ruthless, football dictates there will only be one possible result. That was what was lacking there. We should have looked to dominate them from first minute and stayed on it until the game was put to bed. Instead, we were tentative and let them know there was a game to be had if they wanted to chase it.

Despite all that, we still had plenty of opportunities to finish the match when in front, or equalise when behind. Chances where we didn't even work the keeper.

You won't win every game when you win a title but, usually, title winning sides win matches that are in the balance where they have chances fall their way.

The first half was alright, even if the lead was probably undeserved. The second half was terrible.

I know Parker had to shuffle the pack today but it didn't really work. They didn't look psyched up for the match. The defence didn't looked as organised. I know that there were two, maybe three changes from the first choice defensive four but the defending on the corner was comical.

It looked like a midtable outfit playing against a team fighting for their lives. It wasn't pretty. Still, the games come thick and fast now so there's an early chance to put it right in midweek.

Positives:
Davis - When we looked threatening it was often due to runs he was making on or off the ball. Shaky at the back sometimes but also good at making a recovery tackle. Plus, you can be more forgiving of defensive errors if the full back is a threat at the other end.

Room for improvement:
Stacey - Forget the goals a moment (Kilkenny's ball didn't help him on one), until the final few minutes he was so passive going forward it was a huge disappointment.

Billing - his lung busting run aside, this was the other Billing on show today.

Rogers - I know he's only had minutes here and there which is always a tricky ask, and its harsh to single him out in that performance. However, we can't keep bringing him on if he isn't going to have any impact at all. It feels like every time he gets the ball he gives it away. I'm sure there's a player in there but I'm not sure if he's a player for us right now. I'd love to be proved wrong though.
 
Rogers not up to it at this level.
A half fit Steve Cook is still better than Mepham.
Midfield 2 should be Lerma and Kilkenny (not Pearson or L Cook)
Zemura is a big miss, but Davis is good going forward.
International breaks should be banned. What are our stats after breaks? We always seem to lose.
Bad day, bad result but not the end of the world.
 
-Mepham is a liability.
-Billing is far too unreliable. Good on his day but then fails to turn up to often.
-Rogers is beyond awful, all he does is constantly lose the ball. He should be nowhere near the team.
-Stacy was very very poor today.
-if we are playing a possession game we NEED more creativity in the middle. Lerma is a destroyer and Billing a luxury player who gets on the end of things, neither can create generally (both can sporadically.) We need an advanced midfielder who can take the ball sharply on the half turn and look to link the midfield and attack at speed if we are ever to make this style truly effective. Right now we are incredibly reliant on the full backs and wingers to create. Stop them from playing and we have very little to offer.
 
Waz afcb said:
-Mepham is a liability.
-Billing is far too unreliable. Good on his day but then fails to turn up to often.
-Rogers is beyond awful, all he does is constantly lose the ball. He should be nowhere near the team.
-Stacy was very very poor today.
-if we are playing a possession game we NEED more creativity in the middle. Lerma is a destroyer and Billing a luxury player who gets on the end of things, neither can create generally (both can sporadically.) We need an advanced midfielder who can take the ball sharply on the half turn and look to link the midfield and attack at speed if we are ever to make this style truly effective. Right now we are incredibly reliant on the full backs and wingers to create. Stop them from playing and we have very little to offer.
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A bit harsh on Billing who this season has been excellent with goals and assists. Agree regarding Roger’s, Stacey and mepham.
In terms of being reliant on full backs and wingers to create that is the pattern of football at the moment . Looked at Chelsea, Liverpool and even Man City they are very reliant on their full back and wingers to create .
 
Zonal defending cost us the first goal.mepham and Davies are to weak on the left hand side defensively.cook surely better than mepham and Brady for me better option than Davies.also don't see why kilkenny didn't start
 
My thoughts.

Three main faults today in order of importance
1) Midfield energy. Lerma jet lagged, Billing having one of those 2020 form games he occasionally has, Cook trying to cover an acre of space behind them without the legs Kilkenny or Pearson has. How many times do we have to drop Gav and learn what he actually gives us, all our best performances have come with him. Anyway those three cost us as Derby got a grip and everything came from their midfield. Think sometimes we should play the two holding midfielders. It’s weird JT always did, SP never does… both in my opinion are wrong as theres a call for both systems with some opposition.
2) fullbacks caught behind. Rooney knew that the way to attack us is to win it back and put it wide behind our advanced full backs. It worked better than ever today because Cook didn’t have the legs to get across and cover like Pearson or Gav do when they are holding.
3) that strange formation at the end. 3-4-3 which becomes 5-2-3 with disjointed players, no combinations and wholesale positional changes. We’ve done it a few times now and always looked so much worse than we even were before. Wing backs never work for us particularly when one is Morgan Rogers who I’ve yet to see do anything that suggests he would be worth keeping.

I think we are seeing how key certain players are for us and Mepham and Davis looking after the left hand side of defence is a mile away from Kelly and JZ. Why would you not play Cook ahead of Meps. Two crucial games now to make sure we are right for Fulham.
 
Istabraq said:
Zonal defending cost us the first goal.mepham and Davies are to weak on the left hand side defensively.cook surely better than mepham and Brady for me better option than Davies.also don't see why kilkenny didn't start
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F*** me we are in total agreement :grinning:
 
I would blame two players for todays defeat, Stacey and Billing.
We also played too many long balls instead of keeping possesion,
We lost, we move on, not the end of the world.
 
Neil Dawson said:
My thoughts.

Three main faults today in order of importance
1) Midfield energy. Lerma jet lagged, Billing having one of those 2020 form games he occasionally has, Cook trying to cover an acre of space behind them without the legs Kilkenny or Pearson has. How many times do we have to drop Gav and learn what he actually gives us, all our best performances have come with him. Anyway those three cost us as Derby got a grip and everything came from their midfield. Think sometimes we should play the two holding midfielders. It’s weird JT always did, SP never does… both in my opinion are wrong as theres a call for both systems with some opposition.
2) fullbacks caught behind. Rooney knew that the way to attack us is to win it back and put it wide behind our advanced full backs. It worked better than ever today because Cook didn’t have the legs to get across and cover like Pearson or Gav do when they are holding.
3) that strange formation at the end. 3-4-3 which becomes 5-2-3 with disjointed players, no combinations and wholesale positional changes. We’ve done it a few times now and always looked so much worse than we even were before. Wing backs never work for us particularly when one is Morgan Rogers who I’ve yet to see do anything that suggests he would be worth keeping.

I think we are seeing how key certain players are for us and Mepham and Davis looking after the left hand side of defence is a mile away from Kelly and JZ. Why would you not play Cook ahead of Meps. Two crucial games now to make sure we are right for Fulham.
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I would say the thinking of mepham ahead of cook , is that mepham is playing on a fairly regular basis, and also playing for wales so match fitness level is ahead of him
 
bpl234 said:
I would say the thinking of mepham ahead of cook , is that mepham is playing on a fairly regular basis, and also playing for wales so match fitness level is ahead of him
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Then get Steve Cook match fit. Or try Mepham on the right side of CB at least.
 
He's been in and out a lot, but so far I have no idea what Rogers is supposed to offer. It looks a step from Lincoln for him.

Several times now we've chosen to break the system up to crowbar him onto the pitch, and its never worked. Either play Rogers in a proper position or not at all. He's simply not good enough to justify dismantling the whole shape to fit him in.
 
northstandmark said:
He's been in and out a lot, but so far I have no idea what Rogers is supposed to offer. It looks a step from Lincoln for him.

Several times now we've chosen to break the system up to crowbar him onto the pitch, and its never worked. Either play Rogers in a proper position or not at all. He's simply not good enough to justify dismantling the whole shape to fit him in.
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Or keep the shape and put him wide and move Christie more central. I’d prefer Christie playing alongside Billing with Lerma holding if we aren’t going to play Gav. Think that would be our best option v Fulham then put Lowe wide right.
 
Neil Dawson said:
My thoughts.

Three main faults today in order of importance
1) Midfield energy. Lerma jet lagged, Billing having one of those 2020 form games he occasionally has, Cook trying to cover an acre of space behind them without the legs Kilkenny or Pearson has. How many times do we have to drop Gav and learn what he actually gives us, all our best performances have come with him. Anyway those three cost us as Derby got a grip and everything came from their midfield. Think sometimes we should play the two holding midfielders. It’s weird JT always did, SP never does… both in my opinion are wrong as theres a call for both systems with some opposition.
2) fullbacks caught behind. Rooney knew that the way to attack us is to win it back and put it wide behind our advanced full backs. It worked better than ever today because Cook didn’t have the legs to get across and cover like Pearson or Gav do when they are holding.
3) that strange formation at the end. 3-4-3 which becomes 5-2-3 with disjointed players, no combinations and wholesale positional changes. We’ve done it a few times now and always looked so much worse than we even were before. Wing backs never work for us particularly when one is Morgan Rogers who I’ve yet to see do anything that suggests he would be worth keeping.

I think we are seeing how key certain players are for us and Mepham and Davis looking after the left hand side of defence is a mile away from Kelly and JZ. Why would you not play Cook ahead of Meps. Two crucial games now to make sure we are right for Fulham.
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all good points, especially the lack of energy and quality in midfield
just to add, having three of your four first choice defenders [smith, kelly and zemura] not available is possibly our biggest issue
 
Neil Dawson said:
My thoughts.

Three main faults today in order of importance
1) Midfield energy. Lerma jet lagged, Billing having one of those 2020 form games he occasionally has, Cook trying to cover an acre of space behind them without the legs Kilkenny or Pearson has. How many times do we have to drop Gav and learn what he actually gives us, all our best performances have come with him. Anyway those three cost us as Derby got a grip and everything came from their midfield. Think sometimes we should play the two holding midfielders. It’s weird JT always did, SP never does… both in my opinion are wrong as theres a call for both systems with some opposition.
2) fullbacks caught behind. Rooney knew that the way to attack us is to win it back and put it wide behind our advanced full backs. It worked better than ever today because Cook didn’t have the legs to get across and cover like Pearson or Gav do when they are holding.
3) that strange formation at the end. 3-4-3 which becomes 5-2-3 with disjointed players, no combinations and wholesale positional changes. We’ve done it a few times now and always looked so much worse than we even were before. Wing backs never work for us particularly when one is Morgan Rogers who I’ve yet to see do anything that suggests he would be worth keeping.

I think we are seeing how key certain players are for us and Mepham and Davis looking after the left hand side of defence is a mile away from Kelly and JZ. Why would you not play Cook ahead of Meps. Two crucial games now to make sure we are right for Fulham.
Click to expand...
So we were winning 2-1 and looking fairly comfortable, had just squandered a couple of good chances and then Kilkenny comes on for Cook. Within 10 minutes we are 3-2 down and all over the shop yet it's Cook Billing and Lerma at fault for us losing. Bizarre and wrong. Our midfield fell apart when Cook went off and Kilkenny looked totally lost and conspired with Stacey to lose the game.
 
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Mepham has slotted nice and conveniently into the Gosling/Francis blame slot...that's now a given for any draw or defeat ...
I wonder how many games we've ever won with Lewis Cook starting...needs saying..and I'm not scared of the flak that might attract.
I just don't think he exerts himself enough..fine player with great potential to be at the very top table..but we will see.
If we get gored in the Den on Wednesday SP will be torn apart by the Elite and other cliques on here. He should a done this..that... type of sh*t. Jeez !

I been following Boscombe football for 60 years...seen and heard all kinds of crap...wallies that don't understand that there are hundreds of incidentals in a period of 90+ minutes, of a round object moving in space and with humans in 'moods' propelling it... that can affect an outcome.
.but some dudes will zoom in on one pre- picked out individual when the result isn't what they 'expected'...even Surman would get unwarranted stick.
Rooney's Mob were desperate... when better to turn fortunes than against one of the leading teams.
I could go on all night with unwanted insightment ..and incitement.
I wasn't impressed with the lackadaisical aura that seemed present around the players as they ambled into Pride Park shown in a pre match clip online...don't care what anyone says, you need anger and menace on faces if cameras are around...strike fear !

:throw:
 
redharry said:
So we were winning 2-1 and looking fairly comfortable, had just squandered a couple of good chances and then Kilkenny comes on for Cook. Within 10 minutes we are 3-2 down and all over the shop yet it's Cook Billing and Lerma at fault for us losing. Bizarre and wrong. Our midfield fell apart when Cook went off and Kilkenny looked totally lost and conspired with Stacey to lose the game.
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It’s all about opinions. I didn’t think Cook gave us half of what Kilkenny has given us this season. I was looking beyond Gav having to come into today’s game cold. You could argue that we may have held onto today had he stayed on but he got took off as did Lerma because he was part of a midfield that gave Derby back the game. Most fans are saying it was the midfield today and that was all game regardless of how the game went. If we could have headed the ball in the six yard box we would have won 5-3 but it still wouldn’t have been a strong midfield performance..
 
Neil Dawson said:
It’s all about opinions. I didn’t think Cook gave us half of what Kilkenny has given us this season. I was looking beyond Gav having to come into today’s game cold. You could argue that we may have held onto today had he stayed on but he got took off as did Lerma because he was part of a midfield that gave Derby back the game. Most fans are saying it was the midfield today and that was all game regardless of how the game went. If we could have headed the ball in the six yard box we would have won 5-3 but it still wouldn’t have been a strong midfield performance..
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Agree it's about opinions. I think Cook would stayed on if 100% match fit. I think Pearson would have come on if available as he did at Reading when replacing Kilkenny and tightening up the middle. It was one of those days when a lot of players had off days and we had little cover with a spate of injuries. Anyway onwards with a tough few weeks to come.
 
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