VAR

klaus_afcb said:
In my opinion this is the only way VAR could ever work. One challenge per team, per half. If you're right, you get to keep it. That way VAR would only be used when teams think there is a gross error and not for every toenail offside or accidental brush of an arm. When an error is "clear and obvious" in other words.
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But even then....if it got to the last minute and a team has one appeal left, what is to stop them using it to slow the gam down, instead of it being for a genuine issue???
 
The big issue we'll have with VAR, as I've said before, is convincing whoever it is to actually review something. We've had Josh King fouled in the box two weeks running now and both times it's been waved away without review.

To use an example, we were owed a penalty and (another earlier) red card against Spurs, the culprit being Eric Dier. If anyone thinks VAR would have rectified that injustice, they're wrong. The ref or VAR can still choose to ignore it as if it never happened. Or what about our game v Man City when we were on for an historic draw? Mousset is penalized for a perfectly good tackle and while he's stood in front of the ref waiting to be shown a (completely unwarranted, btw) yellow card, City have already taken the free kick and are off down the pitch about to score. VAR wouldn't have chalked that one off either.

I was amazed by how many times the commentator v Sheff Utd said "that decision will go to VAR" and it actually didn't. Literally, tens of times throughout the game.

Yes it'll probably stop the offside goals against us but I don't believe for a single second that it'll give us all the decisions we've previously been so conveniently denied in the past versus the "big" teams.

My biggest concern has moved away from how long it takes to make a decision and is now focussed on how and when the decision to review will be made as it looks like it's going to be as suspiciously top-6-favouringly "random" as ever.
 
I do find it quite funny.....people all over get fed up with wrong decisions costing their team a point or more....this happens over several years....then VAR comes in and apparently people don't want this help! I think we have to give it the season to calm down. There have been a couple of calls that I feel are too tight and some that have been 100% correctly ruled out.
The start of last season....we had three or four wrongly called offside decisions....that on repeat, were quite clear if VAR was about. I'm sorry but I don't have an issue with VAR now cancelling those type of things!
We can't just give each manager three appeals a game....would be far too open to abuse....time wasting etc.
It isn't going anywhere....we need to deal with this....and hope across the full season, things will be tweaked and managed better and improved on.
 
davygravy said:
But even then....if it got to the last minute and a team has one appeal left, what is to stop them using it to slow the gam down, instead of it being for a genuine issue???
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That would just be a matter of defining the usage rules properly. You would only be able to instigate a challenge if the circumstances permitted it.
No system will be perfect and potentially you could still have the negative side-effect of fans not truly being able to celebrate a goal for fear of its' legality being challenged but I'm sure this challenge system would come a lot closer to being the thing that does the job it was created to do than the system we have at the moment.
 
Implement it in the same way rugby league have used it since the 90s; SHOW THE CROWD EXACTLY WHAT THE VIDEO REF IS SEEING, LIVE.
Apparently the FA are reluctant to do this for fear of crowd trouble. I mean, seriously. Absolute farce.
 
stuseddon said:
Implement it in the same way rugby league have used it since the 90s; SHOW THE CROWD EXACTLY WHAT THE VIDEO REF IS SEEING, LIVE.
Apparently the FA are reluctant to do this for fear of crowd trouble. I mean, seriously. Absolute farce.
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Likely to be more abuse on Twitter than in the stands!

These days how much violence is there at most Premier league games?

Sure most people would be sensiable and fair minded if they knew and understood what was going on.
 
RobTrent said:
All this simply misses the point. VAR is intrusive, ruins the spectacle and immediacy of the moment for paying fans.
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Less than 0.01% of paying fans watching the games are actually in the stadium though. Like it or not, football has surpassed being for fans inside the stadium
 
Of course it is these days - couldnt agree more Rob.

.... and also ruins the spectacle for those watching on tele
too.

It’s sad but I’m really looking forward to watching the Championship game tonight knowing that VAR won’t be there to ruin it. And that feeling is no doubt magnified n times for those actually in the ground.

I remember a good few years ago the FA/FL whoever it was had a crackdown on offsides at the start of the season and for two or three months (until it was forgotten about) you couldn’t celebrate a goal until you’d looked at the ref then the Lino then the ref again, because a lot of goals were getting chalked off.

This is worse, it’s almost like watching ice skating and waiting for the judges scores to come in.
 
Football, along with life in general, is not binary - if I want black/white, yes/no I dont expect it from football.
I expect emotion, highs and lows and I'll live with the wrong decisions and injustices.
The human element, be it players, fans or officials, is what makes it a spectacle, the inconsistencies infuriate you but these are sometimes remembered as much as the glories, it's part and parcel of it.
We've been robbed in games and robbed others ourselves, but once you start to suck out the emotion football will be worse for it, the most intense being a goal and I dont want to lose the unbridled celebrations that go with it.
VAR will eventually strangle it from the game, for what ? Nailed on correct decisions every time ? It cant do it now and never will, real time or video review it will always be subjective and if not referred (as with King's penalty shout) will still leave us with incorrect or non decisions,
Not for me I'm afraid.
 
RobTrent said:
Until the stadiums are empty.

The real 'value' of football fans is the passion they generate, rather than the money.
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I completely agree with you, but I’m sure there will be CGI fans if that happens to keep the TV looking and sounding exciting. Ultimately nobody here criticising VAR is offering solutions for improving it. It isn’t going away. There is no point being in denial and just moaning about it, there has to be a middle ground where people are happy enough to deal with it. If irradiation is all anybody wants, the only option is going to be grass roots football.
 
Silent AFCB said:
I completely agree with you, but I’m sure there will be CGI fans if that happens to keep the TV looking and sounding exciting. Ultimately nobody here criticising VAR is offering solutions for improving it. It isn’t going away. There is no point being in denial and just moaning about it, there has to be a middle ground where people are happy enough to deal with it. If irradiation is all anybody wants, the only option is going to be grass roots football.
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There is absolutely every point in saying I don't think it's working. Meekly accepting this in the name of 'progress' isn't the only option.
 
I don't understand the problem with it.

I've watched rugby league since the mid 80's (before VAR) and after it was introduced in the mid 90's. It's one of the fastest games in the world and it was only improved by the video ref.

Like I said in a previous post, it needs to be shown live in the stadium as they're making the decision. Also, having the ref mic'd up is a big addition, but let's not run before we can walk eh.
 
stuseddon said:
I don't understand the problem with it.

I've watched rugby league since the mid 80's (before VAR) and after it was introduced in the mid 90's. It's one of the fastest games in the world and it was only improved by the video ref.

Like I said in a previous post, it needs to be shown live in the stadium as they're making the decision. Also, having the ref mic'd up is a big addition, but let's not run before we can walk eh.
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You only get a couple of goals per game in football so, on balance, they have greater significance than scores in other team sports. Football is the most popular sport in the world partly because of the huge significance of these moments and the release of emotion that comes with them.

A try in rugby does not lead to the same level of passion, partly because there are more of them and partly because people now know that there's a good chance of it being chalked off by a video ref.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
You only get a couple of goals per game in football so, on balance, they have greater significance than scores in other team sports. Football is the most popular sport in the world partly because of the huge significance of these moments and the release of emotion that comes with them.

A try in rugby does not lead to the same level of passion, partly because there are more of them and partly because people now know that there's a good chance of it being chalked off by a video ref.
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Yeah, it's hard to disagree with that to be honest. However, the last part isn't really true. All tries are celebrated with gusto, regardless of an impending video ref check. If in the ground fans will celebrate, then realise it's being checked, then all turn to watch the replays on the screen....wait...then celebrate again (if given). Two celebrations, see
 
Silent AFCB said:
I completely agree with you, but I’m sure there will be CGI fans if that happens to keep the TV looking and sounding exciting. Ultimately nobody here criticising VAR is offering solutions for improving it. It isn’t going away. There is no point being in denial and just moaning about it, there has to be a middle ground where people are happy enough to deal with it. If irradiation is all anybody wants, the only option is going to be grass roots football.
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Like The Championship you mean?
 
stuseddon said:
I don't understand the problem with it.

I've watched rugby league since the mid 80's (before VAR) and after it was introduced in the mid 90's. It's one of the fastest games in the world and it was only improved by the video ref.

Like I said in a previous post, it needs to be shown live in the stadium as they're making the decision. Also, having the ref mic'd up is a big addition, but let's not run before we can walk eh.
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I guess it could improve with maturity, a few tweaks, and letting the dust settle. Or... get rid of the offside rule and allow tackles from behind.
 
simonhpieman said:
The big issue we'll have with VAR, as I've said before, is convincing whoever it is to actually review something. We've had Josh King fouled in the box two weeks running now and both times it's been waved away without review.

To use an example, we were owed a penalty and (another earlier) red card against Spurs, the culprit being Eric Dier. If anyone thinks VAR would have rectified that injustice, they're wrong. The ref or VAR can still choose to ignore it as if it never happened. Or what about our game v Man City when we were on for an historic draw? Mousset is penalized for a perfectly good tackle and while he's stood in front of the ref waiting to be shown a (completely unwarranted, btw) yellow card, City have already taken the free kick and are off down the pitch about to score. VAR wouldn't have chalked that one off either.

I was amazed by how many times the commentator v Sheff Utd said "that decision will go to VAR" and it actually didn't. Literally, tens of times throughout the game.

Yes it'll probably stop the offside goals against us but I don't believe for a single second that it'll give us all the decisions we've previously been so conveniently denied in the past versus the "big" teams.

My biggest concern has moved away from how long it takes to make a decision and is now focussed on how and when the decision to review will be made as it looks like it's going to be as suspiciously top-6-favouringly "random" as ever.
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1000x yes to this
 
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