Why are we not progressing?

I agree Neil, you are an SOW...:bag:




...and maybe you have a point on some of the other stuff, too. Except director of football, which only works if you change your Head Coach every ten minutes. Oh, I get it now...;)
 
There are so many factors it really is the perfect storm.

Injuries
How much of this we can control is up for debate but leaving that aside for the last 12 months we have had game changing players unavailable. Losing Brooks, Danjuma and Stanislas left us with speed only up front and no craft which meant teams can sit back against us and render us totally impotent. Which they do.

Other teams have got better our signings?
We have added Mepham, Solanke, Billing Danjuma and Stacey for the best part of 65m. None of them were better than what we had (yet). Other teams signings improved them so they moved up a notch and we stood still.

Tactical rigidty
We used to blindly attack everyone and leave gaps at the back. We generally beat the bottom teams but failed against the top teams.
We switched to attacking nobody, conceding possession and defending deep. We now look better against the top teams (but they are harder to beat) but impotent against the bottom teams.
We would be better off going back to what we did or... we would be really better off playing both ways depending on who we were playing. Eddie doesn’t like this though... he likes just one philosophy and style. This makes us predictable

Anachronistic tactics
We have a DNA of 4-4-2 and a coaching team bred in it. When we play other styles we can’t get them to work so are probably better off going back to 4-4-2 (yes even I think this). The issue is there is a reason why nobody plays this anymore outside of us and Burnley. It’s a very easy system to counter and it only really suits long ball which bizarrely we don’t play so have one less midfielder to play our style of football with. Recently, with the players that understood it gone we have looked worse as we have players that would never have played this in their lives. Danjumas bewilderment at Newcastle when he came on is a prime example.

Individual form and commitment
Fraser was our key player last year but his head has been turned. There are heavy rumours Ake was giving it half a season. Wilson has been linked with getting away. Eddie and JT always renew with three years left but are currently on 17months which the players will be aware of. A bedrock of Collective stability has become a fountain of individual need. Players like Lerma and Danjuma are also here just for the cash, great though the former is.

Not knowing our best team
We always knew our best team. I could tell you Liverpool and Chelsea’s best team I could even tell you Watford’s. I have no interest in those clubs. I have huge interest in us, and as someone told me on DM am a strongly opinionated w**ker but I still have no clue what our best team is. More worrying neither does Eddie. He hasn’t even tried the huge talent of Harry Wilson in his international position. We change team every week depending on who had a good appearance off the bench.

Fresh ideas
The greatest managers become predictable. It’s why nobody really lasts longer than 3 or 4years at any club. Wenger with all his cash won nothing in years. Howe is no different. People see his teams coming now. They know how to play us. We shocked Chelsea with a five man midfield but we are now back to Eddie plan A and Brighton picked it apart with ease. He has to change things around and find new impetuses however that might look.

No Director of Football
Old fashioned managers hate this. Harry being the prime example of it. There is a reason the best clubs do this though. Coaches are not talent spotters and vice versa. Controlling every aspect of your club is very league one. Eddie is a phenomenal coach of individual players but his transfer record is pretty poor. He should accept help on this front from people who are skilled in it, not people who played with him.

Natural size constraints
We are who we are. The best use of our cash would have been to build a ground. Go down if necessary. With a stadium you have hope of coming back. We will need a second miracle to do so. Nobody will play for us if they can play in front of 30,000. We may well regret not sorting this out and Eddie has been a key decider in saying he wanted the cash for a team. We are not attractive and we won’t get the gate money to help us long term.

A lot of these decisions are significant changes and I’m not sure either Eddie or the club have the appetite to make them. Without some of them ( not all) we will not maximise what we could be. Maybe it’s not important though... we don’t have the need to be in the top league to survive properly that teams like Leeds and Sheff W have. Maybe we should enjoy it for what it is and take what comes. It’s not like the PL has been that enjoyable for awhile and the pressure on Eddie looks immense at the mo. Time catches up with resources eventually.

Good post. The only thing I disagree with is

'Players like Lerma and Danjuma are also here just for the cash, great though the former is'

Could be accurate, but what I'd like to think is that they see us as a gateway to bigger things rather than being purely for mercenary reasons.

Give us 2 or 3 years of good service and I don't think many fans would have an issue with players moving onto a top 6 club.
 
1. Ryan Fraser nothing like the player of last season in terms of goals scored and assists. Clearly he doesn't want to play for us and although I liked him he has to be moved on.

2. Callum nothing like previous form .... has England selection (flattering as it was) given him an over inflated opinion of himself?

3. Injuries are playing a part but not the whole explanation. Are the injuries partly of our own doing in terms of over training, rushing players back, pitch? Who knows. Certainly Brooks suffered a set back on his road to recovery.

4. Billings inconsistency has to be mentioned along with his continued selection.

5. Eddies continued favouritism of his mates wrt selection. Surman spent too long as a regular before being changed for Gosling, Franno rushed back into the side.

6. Inability to perform well in the transfer market and in doing so not attracting great buys (lets face it we are a small club with a small capacity ground), and attracting some absolute shockers.
Don't need to waste too much time in thinking of Tubbs, Rantie, Iturbie (?correct spelling), Atsu, Afobe,Gradel, Ibe ..... now possibly So Lanky and Billing. For a club with a limited budget this has been a shocking waste of money.

7. Eddie's formations at time along with his woefully slow and often bizarre substitutions.

The positives ..... thank god for Rambo, Ake (hopefully not too far off fit again), Brooks (if ever gets fit), love the look of Danjuma, would like to see Kelly (Arter!!!!!), Adam Smith (please get fit soon), Cook (why never considered for England?), Dan Gosling the dynamo.
 
No manager or player succeeds with everything he undertakes.
In that sense we are all failures in our lives.
The great point is not to fail in the ordering and sustaining of Effort innit?
It can be Vanity that leads us astray, hurrying us into situations where we come out sort of damaged like.
But Pride can override all that by adopting Safeguards... sort of thing....that impose on choices made - by virtue of their sustaining power.
' Safeguards' can be.. Suppressing Vanity in yourself by yourself plus 'Ignoring Pressure' ..and those dickheads that bring it to bear, i.e. Media Wallies..and the impatience that seems to prevail around football about winning trophies as a matter of routine instead of the Privilege of the most Talented.

Medium- paced but significant progress is what managers and players should strive for....as a benchmark.

I mean f#ck me...its only an Entertainment...to observe it within your own clubs endeavors ....and take perspectives from the oppositions efforts too.
Greaves played the game for Fun...ive heard it said...I think Best did too. Le Tissier was another.



Christ... wtf was all that about ! Wednesday on my mind ? Deflection .
 
Dare I say it?

We might as a club have peaked?[/
1.
6. Inability to perform well in the transfer market and in doing so not attracting great buys (lets face it we are a small club with a small capacity ground), and attracting some absolute shockers.
Don't need to waste too much time in thinking of Tubbs, Rantie, Iturbie (?correct spelling), Atsu, Afobe,Gradel, Ibe ..... now possibly So Lanky and Billing. For a club with a limited budget this has been a shocking waste of money.

FWIW I wouldn’t include Max in this list. Before his injury I thought he was sensational but never came back the same.
 
Pinning Tubbs on EH when we were league 1 and he was at Burnley is a bit of a stretch! ;)
If you read the post carefully mate I made no mention of Eddie Howe wrt buying Tubbs. I was talking about the club. Read again.
 
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If you read the post carefully mate I made no mention of Eddie Howe wrt buying Tubbs. I was talking about the club. Read again.

Oooops my bad - so much stuff aimed at EH on here recently (not all unfairly) I included that point as EH directed as well, apologies!
 
There are so many factors it really is the perfect storm.

Injuries
How much of this we can control is up for debate but leaving that aside for the last 12 months we have had game changing players unavailable. Losing Brooks, Danjuma and Stanislas left us with speed only up front and no craft which meant teams can sit back against us and render us totally impotent. Which they do.

Other teams have got better our signings?
We have added Mepham, Solanke, Billing Danjuma and Stacey for the best part of 65m. None of them were better than what we had (yet). Other teams signings improved them so they moved up a notch and we stood still.

Tactical rigidty
We used to blindly attack everyone and leave gaps at the back. We generally beat the bottom teams but failed against the top teams.
We switched to attacking nobody, conceding possession and defending deep. We now look better against the top teams (but they are harder to beat) but impotent against the bottom teams.
We would be better off going back to what we did or... we would be really better off playing both ways depending on who we were playing. Eddie doesn’t like this though... he likes just one philosophy and style. This makes us predictable

Anachronistic tactics
We have a DNA of 4-4-2 and a coaching team bred in it. When we play other styles we can’t get them to work so are probably better off going back to 4-4-2 (yes even I think this). The issue is there is a reason why nobody plays this anymore outside of us and Burnley. It’s a very easy system to counter and it only really suits long ball which bizarrely we don’t play so have one less midfielder to play our style of football with. Recently, with the players that understood it gone we have looked worse as we have players that would never have played this in their lives. Danjumas bewilderment at Newcastle when he came on is a prime example.

Individual form and commitment
Fraser was our key player last year but his head has been turned. There are heavy rumours Ake was giving it half a season. Wilson has been linked with getting away. Eddie and JT always renew with three years left but are currently on 17months which the players will be aware of. A bedrock of Collective stability has become a fountain of individual need. Players like Lerma and Danjuma are also here just for the cash, great though the former is.

Not knowing our best team
We always knew our best team. I could tell you Liverpool and Chelsea’s best team I could even tell you Watford’s. I have no interest in those clubs. I have huge interest in us, and as someone told me on DM am a strongly opinionated w**ker but I still have no clue what our best team is. More worrying neither does Eddie. He hasn’t even tried the huge talent of Harry Wilson in his international position. We change team every week depending on who had a good appearance off the bench.

Fresh ideas
The greatest managers become predictable. It’s why nobody really lasts longer than 3 or 4years at any club. Wenger with all his cash won nothing in years. Howe is no different. People see his teams coming now. They know how to play us. We shocked Chelsea with a five man midfield but we are now back to Eddie plan A and Brighton picked it apart with ease. He has to change things around and find new impetuses however that might look.

No Director of Football
Old fashioned managers hate this. Harry being the prime example of it. There is a reason the best clubs do this though. Coaches are not talent spotters and vice versa. Controlling every aspect of your club is very league one. Eddie is a phenomenal coach of individual players but his transfer record is pretty poor. He should accept help on this front from people who are skilled in it, not people who played with him.

Natural size constraints
We are who we are. The best use of our cash would have been to build a ground. Go down if necessary. With a stadium you have hope of coming back. We will need a second miracle to do so. Nobody will play for us if they can play in front of 30,000. We may well regret not sorting this out and Eddie has been a key decider in saying he wanted the cash for a team. We are not attractive and we won’t get the gate money to help us long term.

A lot of these decisions are significant changes and I’m not sure either Eddie or the club have the appetite to make them. Without some of them ( not all) we will not maximise what we could be. Maybe it’s not important though... we don’t have the need to be in the top league to survive properly that teams like Leeds and Sheff W have. Maybe we should enjoy it for what it is and take what comes. It’s not like the PL has been that enjoyable for awhile and the pressure on Eddie looks immense at the mo. Time catches up with resources eventually.

Good post. Did you write that before hitting the Pina Coladas last night. ;)

Agree about Injuries, not so much about comparing signings. Eddie has been well supported and he's gone for young talent with potential, some are working out, some aren't and with others we've just had bad luck (Danjuma / Kelly Injuries). It really is too early to judge any of them.

Tactical rigidity- We were discussing this yesterday down the pub and the agreement as you say was to go back to what he did best. I think this is a transitional year for Eddie and JT in their development and at the current time it isn't working but they're being hampered ie the Individual commitment examples you gave - add Injuries,plus young players having to step up, some earlier than planned.

Fresh Ideas - yep but I can put my house on it that Eddie is working on them - it may be the making or breaking of him at this level.

Size constraints -agree, totally short sighted off the pitch in relation to the long term future of the club.

As KBG said perhaps we've peaked and this is how relegation from the top tier pans out for a club of this size - slow and painful but as history shows inevitable. Or the New Year could bring a classic Eddie turn around in ideas, commitment and luck on the Injury front.
 
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Great thread full of interesting and well articulated points. I've plenty of vague trails of thought bouncing around my head, but not sure I can contribute much that hasn't already been covered.

The only thing I'd add, is that our senior and highest paid players need to start pulling their weight / rediscover their motivation.

Look at our best performing players this season: Ramsdale, Lerma, Rico, Stacey. Mepham done well in the last couple of games. They're all newer arrivals, on the younger side, and even the older Lerma/Rico are less experienced in PL football.

They aren't supposed to be the bedrock of our performances. They're supposed to supplement the pre existing senior players who should be leading the squad.

Aside from the usually excellent Steve Cook, and limited but trusty Gosling, all our other senior players are below par. Catastrophically so in Wilson and Fraser's case. But even Ake was making uncharacteristic errors, King not quite as clinical as usual. Franno is only getting slower. Daniels, Surman, Smith and Stanislas we haven't really seen much through injury (perhaps not their fault).

The core and leadership of the squad is missing or underperforming, so we're lumping a lot of pressure of young and/or inexperienced players.

Time for some senior figures in the squad to step up and take on the pressure.
 
There are so many factors it really is the perfect storm.

Injuries
How much of this we can control is up for debate but leaving that aside for the last 12 months we have had game changing players unavailable. Losing Brooks, Danjuma and Stanislas left us with speed only up front and no craft which meant teams can sit back against us and render us totally impotent. Which they do.

Other teams have got better our signings?
We have added Mepham, Solanke, Billing Danjuma and Stacey for the best part of 65m. None of them were better than what we had (yet). Other teams signings improved them so they moved up a notch and we stood still.

Tactical rigidty
We used to blindly attack everyone and leave gaps at the back. We generally beat the bottom teams but failed against the top teams.
We switched to attacking nobody, conceding possession and defending deep. We now look better against the top teams (but they are harder to beat) but impotent against the bottom teams.
We would be better off going back to what we did or... we would be really better off playing both ways depending on who we were playing. Eddie doesn’t like this though... he likes just one philosophy and style. This makes us predictable

Anachronistic tactics
We have a DNA of 4-4-2 and a coaching team bred in it. When we play other styles we can’t get them to work so are probably better off going back to 4-4-2 (yes even I think this). The issue is there is a reason why nobody plays this anymore outside of us and Burnley. It’s a very easy system to counter and it only really suits long ball which bizarrely we don’t play so have one less midfielder to play our style of football with. Recently, with the players that understood it gone we have looked worse as we have players that would never have played this in their lives. Danjumas bewilderment at Newcastle when he came on is a prime example.

Individual form and commitment
Fraser was our key player last year but his head has been turned. There are heavy rumours Ake was giving it half a season. Wilson has been linked with getting away. Eddie and JT always renew with three years left but are currently on 17months which the players will be aware of. A bedrock of Collective stability has become a fountain of individual need. Players like Lerma and Danjuma are also here just for the cash, great though the former is.

Not knowing our best team
We always knew our best team. I could tell you Liverpool and Chelsea’s best team I could even tell you Watford’s. I have no interest in those clubs. I have huge interest in us, and as someone told me on DM am a strongly opinionated w**ker but I still have no clue what our best team is. More worrying neither does Eddie. He hasn’t even tried the huge talent of Harry Wilson in his international position. We change team every week depending on who had a good appearance off the bench.

Fresh ideas
The greatest managers become predictable. It’s why nobody really lasts longer than 3 or 4years at any club. Wenger with all his cash won nothing in years. Howe is no different. People see his teams coming now. They know how to play us. We shocked Chelsea with a five man midfield but we are now back to Eddie plan A and Brighton picked it apart with ease. He has to change things around and find new impetuses however that might look.

No Director of Football
Old fashioned managers hate this. Harry being the prime example of it. There is a reason the best clubs do this though. Coaches are not talent spotters and vice versa. Controlling every aspect of your club is very league one. Eddie is a phenomenal coach of individual players but his transfer record is pretty poor. He should accept help on this front from people who are skilled in it, not people who played with him.

Natural size constraints
We are who we are. The best use of our cash would have been to build a ground. Go down if necessary. With a stadium you have hope of coming back. We will need a second miracle to do so. Nobody will play for us if they can play in front of 30,000. We may well regret not sorting this out and Eddie has been a key decider in saying he wanted the cash for a team. We are not attractive and we won’t get the gate money to help us long term.

A lot of these decisions are significant changes and I’m not sure either Eddie or the club have the appetite to make them. Without some of them ( not all) we will not maximise what we could be. Maybe it’s not important though... we don’t have the need to be in the top league to survive properly that teams like Leeds and Sheff W have. Maybe we should enjoy it for what it is and take what comes. It’s not like the PL has been that enjoyable for awhile and the pressure on Eddie looks immense at the mo. Time catches up with resources eventually.
 
Great thread full of interesting and well articulated points. I've plenty of vague trails of thought bouncing around my head, but not sure I can contribute much that hasn't already been covered.

The only thing I'd add, is that our senior and highest paid players need to start pulling their weight / rediscover their motivation.

Look at our best performing players this season: Ramsdale, Lerma, Rico, Stacey. Mepham done well in the last couple of games. They're all newer arrivals, on the younger side, and even the older Lerma/Rico are less experienced in PL football.

They aren't supposed to be the bedrock of our performances. They're supposed to supplement the pre existing senior players who should be leading the squad.

Aside from the usually excellent Steve Cook, and limited but trusty Gosling, all our other senior players are below par. Catastrophically so in Wilson and Fraser's case. But even Ake was making uncharacteristic errors, King not quite as clinical as usual. Franno is only getting slower. Daniels, Surman, Smith and Stanislas we haven't really seen much through injury (perhaps not their fault).

The core and leadership of the squad is missing or underperforming, so we're lumping a lot of pressure of young and/or inexperienced players.

Time for some senior figures in the squad to step up and take on the pressure.
Eddie sold Mings and Mousset he got it wrong these players can play a number of positions both scored against Man United.Mousset he shoots the bloody ball towards the keeper.Still don't get how he bought Solanke with a well documented poor scoring record.
 
Still don't get how he bought Solanke with a well documented poor scoring record.

Does that well documented scoring record include the 36 goals he has scored in 70 appearances for the England Youth team at various levels? (Not to mention being selected as Player of the Tournament in the 2017 FIFA U-20 World Cup in South Korea)
 
.Still don't get how he bought Solanke with a well documented poor scoring record.

Solanke only had 5 starts under his belt before he joined us. A total of 619 minutes. Callum Wilson’s baron run is longer.

As said above he was bought for his record at international level and potential.
 
Many teams , about 50% I reckon...are ' not progressing '. You could say MC are not, compared with last season.
Bolton and Sunderland are not.
Portsmouth and Plymouth blow hot and cold.
The Intention of Progress is always there.
Setbacks like injuries will dictate the flow.
Other fateful occurrences will chip in...all clubs at the mercy of those!

All we can do is support...some of us online or buying the merchandise or whatever.....those attending the games much more so.
I never had any confidence that progress would be actually made when we threw our contributions in the buckets....I thought that was a ' thankyou for the pleasure' and goodbye. RIP. But it was raw support that meant we cared about our football club... hoping the name Bournemouth would still be read out on the ' football results' .

But Fate intervened bigstyle a bit later....
 
Solanke only had 5 starts under his belt before he joined us. A total of 619 minutes. Callum Wilson’s baron run is longer.

As said above he was bought for his record at international level and potential.

There is an interesting post going around about Solanke v Abraham. How the latter went and learnt his trade in men’s football but the former wouldn’t.

How England youth goals really count for nothing. There have been some prolific scorers at youth level who ended up non league or lower league. Just pull up some England U18 teams from the late 2000’s and look at what they are doing now. Didn’t Baily Cargill get an U21 cap? Jack Simpson did and I don’t think he will play for England.

So while some make it at the top level most don’t. It really is no indication.

Even Under 21 squad is not an indication as there have been plenty of them that end up championship and league one. It is interesting as well that Solanke’s goal record dropped to around 1in 3 at that level. Lys Moussets was better for France U21 for example at under 1 in 2
 

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