Non - Ukraine

stanthevan said:
Right now, we should be very scared being one of the short sighted countries to keep our nuclear weapons. If Nato get involved we will be a nuclear target for Russia as we have a "deterrent" and they have the capability of wiping us out before we even give them a scratch.
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There is still mutually assured destruction is there not? How has denuclearisation worked out for Ukraine?
 
MB1980 said:
Obviously harsh on Ukraine, but would rather we didn't get involve so Russia doesn't perceive us as a threat that has to be dealt with.

I guess if we don't get involved where will Russia rampage end... I have no idea what his end game plan is.
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Exactly

If not Ukraine, at what point do we get involved?

Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia?

Slovakia and the Czech Republic?

Hungary?

Poland?

Finland?

Germany?
 
adam0102 said:
Exactly

If not Ukraine, at what point do we get involved?

Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia?

Slovakia and the Czech Republic?

Hungary?

Poland?

Finland?

Germany?
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those countries are NATO members so we would in theory have to get involved. Even if he invaded NATO members I can’t see everyone in NATO coming together and agreeing to fight. Majority of NATO countries dont meet their commitments now so why would they fight
 
stanthevan said:
Right now, we should be very scared being one of the short sighted countries to keep our nuclear weapons. If Nato get involved we will be a nuclear target for Russia as we have a "deterrent" and they have the capability of wiping us out before we even give them a scratch.
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As I'm sure you know, the theory of MAD is that Putin can wipe London off the map but we still have missiles constantly hidden under the sea to wipe Moscow off the map afterwards. And visa versa.

Whether the response action would actually be taken in such an event, we've no idea cos it's not happened in 70 years. And hope never to find out, thanks to the threat being there.

I note that the countries Putin has directly hit in recent years are countries now without nuclear arms.

Disarmament at the current time means outsourcing this to the USA and whichever septuagenarian happens to be president at the time.

That said, as time and technology move on I wouldn't be totally against disarmament ever. Depending on the situation, if the funds were put into our ever dwindling cut back conventional forces, and the increasingly sophisticated defence systems available. Though that's getting further off topic!
 
adam0102 said:
Exactly

If not Ukraine, at what point do we get involved?

Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia?

Slovakia and the Czech Republic?

Hungary?

Poland?

Finland?

Germany?
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Finland isn’t a member.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-countries


Although Finland is not a NATO member, Helsinki has closely partnered with the alliance on security issues in the High North and the Baltic Sea since 2014. Sweden and Finland “provide a strong deterrent force,” he said.

Pulkkinen said Finland is working particularly closely with neighboring Estonia in professionalizing its military training in all ranks and sharing information. One benefit for the alliance in this strengthening partnership was “we made NATO aware of our capabilities” militarily and countering gray zone attacks as Helsinki did in 2015 and 2016.

Pulkkinen said NATO’s doors for membership to Ukraine and possibly his country, Sweden and others in Europe must remain open.

https://news.usni.org/2022/02/22/fi...an-threat-to-its-border-defense-minister-says
 
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Ukraine and NATO's relations started in 1994 and applied to begin a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008. The 2010 presidential election of Viktor Yanukovych, who wanted to keep the country non-aligned, delayed Ukraine's M.A. After Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine's new government made joining NATO a priority. Ukraine became a NATO aspiring member in 2018. On February 7, 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted to change its constitution to join NATO and the European Union.
 
ErikthViking said:
Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, are NATO countries and are also on Putin's list of countries to control.
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Very worrying to realise this. I was of the belief that there was some sort of agreement, although not a written treaty, that NATO would not expand to include any former Soviet states. It is clear to me that Putin wants to re-establish the Soviet Union as a new Russian empire and when the first Russian boot steps on any Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian soil then all us NATO members are committed and obliged to join in and defend them. A very sad and deeply worrying prospect.
 
zigger zaggar said:
Very worrying to realise this. I was of the belief that there was some sort of agreement, although not a written treaty, that NATO would not expand to include any former Soviet states. It is clear to me that Putin wants to re-establish the Soviet Union as a new Russian empire and when the first Russian boot steps on any Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian soil then all us NATO members are committed and obliged to join in and defend them. A very sad and deeply worrying prospect.
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But will nato countries go and fight to defend each other? I don’t think they will
 
MB1980 said:
So basically nukes are more about flexing and acting as deterrent to certain other countries who are unlikely to ever disarm them?
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The West went to sleep, increased spending on social programs and cutting defence spending for many years. The West based their energy needs on Russia , Putin then had Europe over a proverbial barrel. Trump for all his faults made America energy independent and could also supply Europe with surplus oil and gas.

Putin is an old school KGB man , we have forgotten the Cold war and have become complacent whille Putin seems to have played the West on his Stradivarius.

https://www.thoughtco.com/mutually-assured-destruction-1221190
 
If we (NATO) dropped troops into Ukraine to help defend them then Putin would have a big decision to make…whether or not to fight them…ultimately without the nuclear option NATO could make a proper military stand and repel the Russians if they wanted to?…let’s face it it will go this way eventually?
 
Garbo said:
If we (NATO) dropped troops into Ukraine to help defend them then Putin would have a big decision to make…whether or not to fight them…ultimately without the nuclear option NATO could make a proper military stand and repel the Russians if they wanted to?…let’s face it it will go this way eventually?
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Not sure they could tbh. European countries have grown weak and have not spent near enough on defense. They don’t have near enough troops ready and in place or enough aircraft. There’s no way Germany or France is going to go fight Russia unless they are on their own door step instead they will
Be praying it end with the Ukraine
 
wayne189@ said:
Not sure they could tbh. European countries have grown weak and have not spent near enough on defense. They don’t have near enough troops ready and in place or enough aircraft. There’s no way Germany or France is going to go fight Russia unless they are on their own door step instead they will
Be praying it end with the Ukraine
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Spot on .

https://twitter.com/x/status/1496756495626690560
 
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