Kevin Keegan

[MB1980]

Aside from your inflated view of your football knowledge, which just doesn't compare to someone who has played professionally... Eddie Howe is a manager and people who haven't had the best career as a player often make great managers. That said nobody was paying Howe to be a pundits until he had proven himself at the top level as a manager.

Exactly. There's probably a load of explayers, managers in the lower leagues that have personality that woukd make good impression, along with extensive knowledge/insight of the game, but sky or whoever won't employ them as the vast majority of people that watch football don't know about anyone outside tge top flight, possibly the top flight.

Reputation in top flight clearly clearly carries a heavy weighting when sky or whoever are looking for a new male pundit. More so than genuine knowledge.

Another thing is, tgat just because someone was a world class/top player doesn't mean they'd make a good manager or coach, pundit or whatever.

Variety of reasons why, but some are elite due to inate talent, and applying themselves, certain character make up etc. But have no idea how to coach, relay that onto others, for whatever reason.

I've seen it a lot over the years in the tech field too. Best techs end up promoted into managerial roles as tgey want more money, hit a ceiling with hands on tech positions and are utterly hopeless, even with extensive training, support etc.

I'll always recall Druss claiming he could coach players to similar levels as pros, ashe coaches a boys under 12's team or something like that. One of the most ridiculous things ive read on here tbh if he genuinely believes that.

 

[MB1980]

There's one high-pitched shouty women commentator on BBC that I can't stand listening to, don't really mind the others. Couldn't care less who's doing punditry at half time/full time.

Yeah it's the over the top, try hard thing that annoys me most with some women commentators. No doubt trying to be entertaining, give impression of having 'charisma' but just comes across like being a try hard.

Obviously some women are charasmatic, but it's more of a quality men tend to carry naturally imo. Looking at the ratio of female/male comedians, or leaders in general gives a bit of insight into that imo.

 

[New Old Cherry]

How are a women's eyes any different than a man ?
If she spotted say for instance, a Boscombe player being tripped in the box and deserving of a penalty....she can, as easily as a man, comment accordingly !
I can't see what the earthly difference is !

 

[SlowDownDerek]

Spot on. One of the main points in my waffle

Good thing or not, many have an issue if they sense any whiff of 'positive' discrimination in any walk of life. If someone has little stature, charisma and appears to lack perception/knowledge it causes people to roll their eyes, or question why that person got the role.

If you have the rep/stature you'll get more of a pass from the masses, even if you are a bit clueless outside of the big clubs, or lack personality/charisma.

Tbh I don't have much time for people who whine about positive discrimination generally. It's often just an attempt to restrict competition.

On this argument the flip side to what Keegan says is that not everything is supposed to appeal to him. As I say it's the entertainment industry so if they are after more female viewers (presumably a large potentially untapped audience) and they think female pundits is the way to attract them then they will get them on and Keegan and the like will have to deal with it.

 

[MB1980]

Tbh I don't have much time for people who whine about positive discrimination generally. It's often just an attempt to restrict competition.

On this argument the flip side to what Keegan says is that not everything is supposed to appeal to him. As I say it's the entertainment industry so if they are after more female viewers (presumably a large potentially untapped audience) and they think female pundits is the way to attract them then they will get them on and Keegan and the like will have to deal with it.

I was going to qualify that and of course some moan about due to having certain negative trait outlooks/tendencies. But at the same think it's a bit flippant to exist it doesn't go on or its just a bunch of gammons whining/people worried about their jobs. Many are perfectly capable of hiring the best person, without bias, so being 'encouraged' to select certain candidates for other 'political' reasons can be frustrating.

I was on a course recently that suggested that soon, people may have option of not including their name on the application/cv. Seems ridiculous on so many levels, particularly as at some point they will be interviewed.

No doubt some do discriminate, buts it's likely an every shrinking minority.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

I was going to qualify that and of course some moan about due to having certain negative trait outlooks/tendencies. But at the same think it's a bit flippant to exist it doesn't go on or its just a bunch of gammons whining/people worried about their jobs. Many are perfectly capable of hiring the best person, without bias, so being 'encouraged' to select certain candidates for other 'political' reasons can be frustrating.

I was on a course recently that suggested that soon, people may have option of not including their name on the application/cv. Seems ridiculous on so many levels, particularly as at some point they will be interviewed.

No doubt some do discriminate, buts it's likely an every shrinking minority.

I think good old fashioned discrimination is a lot more damaging than positive discrimination. What relevance is someone's name or gender to the employer? If they genuinely gave jobs to the best candidates irrespective of background then there wouldn't be a problem but all the studies show that if your name is Mohammed etc. You've got a lot less chance of getting the job.

Why your name matters in the search for a job

Why jobseekers with ethnic names change personal details on their CVs.

www.bbc.com

 

[New Old Cherry]

Some incredibly naive and stupid attitudes to Women and Women's Football...mind you not surprising on some incredibly naive and stupid sectors of this Forum.
It's just a bloody Game FFS !...boots, grass, ball, goalposts and corner flags !
90% of the blokes playing it now professionally are effeminate in their application of aspects of it....you only have to observe them at corner kicks to see that....plus the dying swan ballet tributes after minor injuries..ye Gods ..Batman...and any Batwomen !

 

[MB1980]

Some incredibly naive and stupid attitudes to Women and Women's Football...mind you not surprising on some incredibly naive and stupid sectors of this Forum.
It's just a bloody Game FFS !...boots, grass, ball, goalposts and corner flags !
90% of the blokes playing it now professionally are effeminate in their application of aspects of it....you only have to observe them at corner kicks to see that....plus the dying swan ballet tributes after minor injuries..ye Gods ..Batman...and any Batwomen !

That's a fair point.

Many male/Masculine traits pursuits are now considered 'toxic'. In 50-100 years we'll probably just be one blob of a race with no gender, or at least no discernable gender traits.. I suspect (tongue half in cheek).

 

[Kudos]

Let's face it they all talk shite in the end anyway.

Yeah and when they don't it's clearly because a researcher has pushed an opinion to them but I take your point it's about "brand value".

Yeah it's the over the top, try hard thing that annoys me most with some women commentators. No doubt trying to be entertaining, give impression of having 'charisma' but just comes across like being a try hard.

Obviously some women are charasmatic, but it's more of a quality men tend to carry naturally imo. Looking at the ratio of female/male comedians, or leaders in general gives a bit of insight into that imo.

I don't think it's necessarily a lack of charisma more than there isn't a really a blueprint for a lot of female roles. Typically following the male pattern doesn't really work and there needs to be an adjustment in the approach. Additionally when that approach is discovered there will be period where it's impartially equal in quality but there's a culture of expecting it to be delivered a certain way. There might even be some tech involved, tune the mics differently to suit a different vocal profile.

Things like being a stand up comedian requires a hard extrovert personality and often being a bit confrontational so it biases towards men.

Diana Fleischman or (I'll be pilloried for this one) Jordan Peterson explain this sort of stuff really well scientifically.

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

Aside from your inflated view of your football knowledge, which just doesn't compare to someone who has played professionally..

This is such a funny take. What has football knowledge to do with the ability to kick a football?

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

I'll always recall Druss claiming he could coach players to similar levels as pros, ashe coaches a boys under 12's team or something like that. One of the most ridiculous things ive read on here tbh if he genuinely believes that.

Pretty sure I never said that... could you find it?

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

I find it hilarious that some people cannot see the difference between physical ability and intellectual ability.

If you get both (in Eddies case) then you get a unique manager. But if you dont, then you get the Rooneys, Gazzas and Maradona's of this world.

 

[SlowDownDerek]

This is such a funny take. What has football knowledge to do with the ability to kick a football?

I find it hilarious that some people cannot see the difference between physical ability and intellectual ability.

If you get both (in Eddies case) then you get a unique manager. But if you dont, then you get the Rooneys, Gazzas and Maradona's of this world.

It's not about the difference between physical ability and intellectual ability it's about the difference in training and experience. You haven't spent one day working with professional athletes let alone a couple of decades therefore your level of knowledge abouth what is involved in preparing for a professional football game has a massive hole in it. There is no way your level of knowledge is comparable because you've watched a load of games. That's not to say you couldn't ever have this level of knowledge but you don't have it now.

 

[MB1980]

Pretty sure I never said that... could you find it?

Perhaps not exactky that, but I recall an exchange between us 1 to to 3 years back, on some topic where you said something along the lines of coaching players not being particularly difficult and you referenced yiu coaching kids and that you could go in at a pro club and do a similar job due to that.

I remember reading it and thinking how ridiculous it was, so I dived in and calked it out, ending in us debating it over a few points.

No idea whst to search for and find a needle in haystack. So go ahead and deny it, but yiu 100% alluded to that or very similar.

 

[Red_till_im_ded]

I'm.quite liking the 'wet look' villa shirt , I must admit.

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

Perhaps not exactky that, but I recall an exchange between us 1 to to 3 years back, on some topic where you said something along the lines of coaching players not being particularly difficult and you referenced yiu coaching kids and that you could go in at a pro club and do a similar job due to that.

I remember reading it and thinking how ridiculous it was, so I dived in and calked it out, ending in us debating it over a few points.

No idea whst to search for and find a needle in haystack. So go ahead and deny it, but yiu 100% alluded to that or very similar.

I remember a post of yours where you said you you could easily beat Red House, SDD and New Old Cherry in a fight outside the ground...all at the same time. You can deny it all you want but I think you should go ahead with it.

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

Perhaps not exactky that, but I recall an exchange between us 1 to to 3 years back, on some topic where you said something along the lines of coaching players not being particularly difficult and you referenced yiu coaching kids and that you could go in at a pro club and do a similar job due to that.

I remember reading it and thinking how ridiculous it was, so I dived in and calked it out, ending in us debating it over a few points.

No idea whst to search for and find a needle in haystack. So go ahead and deny it, but yiu 100% alluded to that or very similar.

You can misquote me all your want. Pretty standard on here.

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

It's not about the difference between physical ability and intellectual ability it's about the difference in training and experience. You haven't spent one day working with professional athletes let alone a couple of decades therefore your level of knowledge abouth what is involved in preparing for a professional football game has a massive hole in it. There is no way your level of knowledge is comparable because you've watched a load of games. That's not to say you couldn't ever have this level of knowledge but you don't have it now.

So this is where you admit to the world that Rishi and the current government are correct and you are wrong because you have never been a professional member of Parliament. They simply know more than you because you have never spent 1 minute understanding what it takes to run a country. Cannot believe you even try to comment or suggest the Tories might be wrong...

 

[MB1980]

I remember a post of yours where you said you you could easily beat Red House, SDD and New Old Cherry in a fight outside the ground...all at the same time. You can deny it all you want but I think you should go ahead with it.

Yes you could. But you and I both know I didn't say that. (I did once send NOC a d1ck pic over pm and offered him an aggressive bj, but that's another story...).

You absolutely alluded to your coaching background being something that would allow you to go in a do something at a pro ckub... it was more than 'putting out the cones'. The exact details I can't recall but you did make a statement along those lines.

 

[Druss_the_Legend]

Yes you could. But you and I both know I didn't say that. (I did once send NOC a d1ck pic over pm and offered him an aggressive bj, but that's another story...).

You absolutely alluded to your coaching background being something that would allow you to go in a do something at a pro ckub... it was more than 'putting out the cones'. The exact details I can't recall but you did make a statement along those lines.

I always thought I was a **** coach so I honestly cannot believe I would say that.

I stand by my ability to see that Ibe was pants while very few could though..

Edited to add: I might have suggested that someone could be a good coach without being an ex professional footballer and I stand 100% behind that. Myself, I passed several badges but just wasn't very good at running training sessions.