Non - Pandemic

DJ said:
Haven't read it, but does it address the timing of first and second dose? The UK decision to delay the gap was heavily questioned (myself included) but it appears to have been proved right.
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There are 6 sections in total.

58% of all their citizens are fully vaccinated.


1. Immunity from the vaccine dips over time.


Israel had fully vaccinated slightly over half its population by March 25. Infections waned, venues reopened to the vaccinated and the prime minister told Israelis to go out and have fun. By June, all restrictions, including indoor masking, were abolished.

But Israel paid a price for the early rollout. Health officials, and then Pfizer, said their data showed a dip in the vaccine's protection around six months after receiving the second shot.



2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.


It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.

"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.



3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.


The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

The bad news, doctors say, is that half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago. Most of them are over 60 years old and have comorbidities. The seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated are mostly young, healthy people whose condition deteriorated quickly.

Israel's daily average number of infections has nearly doubled in the past two weeks and has increased around tenfold since mid-July, approaching the numbers during Israel's peak in the winter. Deaths increased from five in June to at least 248 so far this month. Health officials say that currently 600 seriously ill patients are hospitalized, and they warn they cannot handle more than 1,000 serious infections at the same time.



4. Israel's high vaccination rate isn't high enough.


The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated.

But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine.

That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough.

"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

"That will lead to mass infection, which is exactly what we are seeing now," said Segal.
 
billythekid said:
There are 6 sections in total.

58% of all their citizens are fully vaccinated.


1. Immunity from the vaccine dips over time.


Israel had fully vaccinated slightly over half its population by March 25. Infections waned, venues reopened to the vaccinated and the prime minister told Israelis to go out and have fun. By June, all restrictions, including indoor masking, were abolished.

But Israel paid a price for the early rollout. Health officials, and then Pfizer, said their data showed a dip in the vaccine's protection around six months after receiving the second shot.



2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.


It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.

"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.



3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.


The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

The bad news, doctors say, is that half of Israel's seriously ill patients who are currently hospitalized were fully vaccinated at least five months ago. Most of them are over 60 years old and have comorbidities. The seriously ill patients who are unvaccinated are mostly young, healthy people whose condition deteriorated quickly.

Israel's daily average number of infections has nearly doubled in the past two weeks and has increased around tenfold since mid-July, approaching the numbers during Israel's peak in the winter. Deaths increased from five in June to at least 248 so far this month. Health officials say that currently 600 seriously ill patients are hospitalized, and they warn they cannot handle more than 1,000 serious infections at the same time.



4. Israel's high vaccination rate isn't high enough.


The country jumped out ahead of all other countries on vaccines, and 78% of eligible Israelis over 12 years old are vaccinated.

But Israel has a young population, with many under the eligible age for vaccination, and about 1.1 million eligible Israelis, largely between the ages of 12 and 20, have declined to take even one dose of the vaccine.

That means only 58% of Israel's total citizenry is fully vaccinated. Experts say that's not nearly high enough.

"We have a very large fraction of our population who are paying the price for a small fraction of the population who did not go to get the vaccine," said Eran Segal of the Weizmann Institute of Science, who advises the Israeli government on COVID-19.

Unvaccinated people helped fuel the rapid spread of the virus while the country remained open for business in recent months with few serious restrictions.

"That will lead to mass infection, which is exactly what we are seeing now," said Segal.
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So “no” then?
 
DJ said:
So “no” then?
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Think from reading that the protection does drop after 6 months and boosters have helped.

But they are getting a third shot of the Pfizer one.

As for our government, think things changed when Hancock went and was replaced by a money man (former banker) and Chancellor of the Exchequer.
 
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billythekid said:
Think from reading that the protection does drop after 6 months and boosters have helped.

But they are getting a third shot of the Pfizer one.
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Point is, the protection from a second dose after 3 weeks is different to a second dose after 8 weeks. So any waning of protection is different. As you said it’s Pfizer and they’re not just looking at third shots but fourth as well.

Handy if your vaccine is made for a profit.

On the other side of the coin there’s Oxford Uni and AstraZeneca’s not for profit vaccine and they don’t think the proof behind boosters has been proven yet.

If only I could connect the dots as to why those two companies have come to different conclusions…
 
DJ said:
Point is, the protection from a second dose after 3 weeks is different to a second dose after 8 weeks. So any waning of protection is different. As you said it’s Pfizer and they’re not just looking at third shots but fourth as well.

Handy if your vaccine is made for a profit.

On the other side of the coin there’s Oxford Uni and AstraZeneca’s not for profit vaccine and they don’t think the proof behind boosters has been proven yet.

If only I could connect the dots as to why those two companies have come to different conclusions…
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and thats useful to bare in mind when looking up 'science' backed reports for most things. who's funding it, what do they have to gain/lose from the results.
 
DJ said:
Point is, the protection from a second dose after 3 weeks is different to a second dose after 8 weeks. So any waning of protection is different. As you said it’s Pfizer and they’re not just looking at third shots but fourth as well.

Handy if your vaccine is made for a profit.

On the other side of the coin there’s Oxford Uni and AstraZeneca’s not for profit vaccine and they don’t think the proof behind boosters has been proven yet.

If only I could connect the dots as to why those two companies have come to different conclusions…
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They are also different types of vaccine too.
 
redharry said:
I certainly don't support them, never have.
On a different note when is Biden going to open up the US for foreign travellers. Everyone else seems to be accomodating the Yanks but not the other way round. The Canadians are opening up this week will Biden follow ?
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I don’t know but it also drives me crazy that I need a negative test to get back into my own country! Go to Greece in two weeks. My vaccination is good enough to get into Greece but not to come home. Makes no sense.
 
Mark WFC said:
Vaccine passports to be scrapped ?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1436829231602970625
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All about opinions, but personally think ditching them is a mistake.

Cases are still rising and we haven’t reached the Autumn/Winter period yet.

We have passports, driving licences etc with ID.

So with vaccine passports, if people don’t want the vaccine by choice, then why should they possibly put others at risk in crowded indoor venues.
 
billythekid said:
All about opinions, but personally think ditching them is a mistake.

Cases are still rising and we haven’t reached the Autumn/Winter period yet.

We have passports, driving licences etc with ID.

So with vaccine passports, if people don’t want the vaccine by choice, then why should they possibly put others at risk in crowded indoor venues.
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But where does it end BTK. Tubes, trains, buses, workplaces, pubs, cafes, cinemas, schools, uni's - all are just as likely to be places where you catch it. The most likely place to get infected is at home through an infected member of your family or in hospital for some other reason. The best that ordinary people can do is to encourage people they know to get vaccinated.
If you make vaccine passports necessary for clubs all it will do is encourage illegal raves and gatherings.
We have to just get on with it. in my view.
 
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