Non - Liz Truss

Kudos said:
When borrowing from future generations, I've always been conservative with a small c. However, I wonder if it's not worth lumping some debt on our kids to kick on with green energy.

Kick solar into overdrive and cover all public buildings as well as force feedback tariffs to be at least 90% of the wholesale price making it a no-brainer investment for anyone with money to save. The technology is there and it's the cheapest power to generate by some margin it just needs the barriers to adoption removed.
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Or charge the current generations that are actually responsible for it .
 
Kudos said:
When borrowing from future generations, I've always been conservative with a small c. However, I wonder if it's not worth lumping some debt on our kids to kick on with green energy.

Kick solar into overdrive and cover all public buildings as well as force feedback tariffs to be at least 90% of the wholesale price making it a no-brainer investment for anyone with money to save. The technology is there and it's the cheapest power to generate by some margin it just needs the barriers to adoption removed.
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On you first point why should youngsters be taxed to pay for the failure of previous generations to consider how to effectively ensure an adequate energy supply? Younger generations are already facing a cost of living crisis plus the issue of utterly unaffordable housing but let's shift the burden of resolving the energy issue from older generations (who are in general more comfortably off) to young people who are just trying to make their way in life.

On your second point how are you going to keep the power on during winter or at night time? This is without even discussing the toxicity of the materials that are used in the manufacture of solar panels.
 
yanh_ said:
On your second point how are you going to keep the power on during winter or at night time? This is without even discussing the toxicity of the materials that are used in the manufacture of solar panels.
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Love comments like this. Burns irreplaceable dead dinosaurs for decades but suddenly gets upset about whats used to build panels. Nothing toxic by the way.

There is no such thing as free energy. It all comes at a cost. To pretend that building solar panels or turbines is not a massive step forward over the infrastructure needed to hunt for, extract, transport, refine, transport again and store oil... its pretty laughable.

As for when the sun doesnt shine and the wind is not blowing (this is the UK btw) thats what nuclear, batteries, gravity, some hydrogen and some gas is for. The key is to get the mix right.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
Love comments like this. Burns irreplaceable dead dinosaurs for decades but suddenly gets upset about whats used to build panels. Nothing toxic by the way.
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Replacing one harmful process with another as a knee jerk response is not a decent long term solution.
Druss_the_Legend said:
There is no such thing as free energy. It all comes at a cost. To pretend that building solar panels or turbines is not a massive step forward over the infrastructure needed to hunt for, extract, transport, refine, transport again and store oil... its pretty laughable
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Where did I say that there was 'free energy'?
Druss_the_Legend said:
As for when the sun doesnt shine and the wind is not blowing (this is the UK btw) thats what nuclear, batteries, gravity, some hydrogen and some gas is for. The key is to get the mix right.
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Agree with you on nuclear, hydro is also a realistic option but batteries? Batteries are extremely harmful to produce, expensive and have a very limited operational life. There are definitely better options.
 
wallmth said:
Or charge the current generations that are actually responsible for it .
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Unless you are of an extreme political position you'll see that the majority are up against it and it's somewhat unfair to blame a generation for buying Russian gas which was part of an attempt to reconcile with Russia after the cold war.

yanh_ said:
On you first point why should youngsters be taxed to pay for the failure of previous generations to consider how to effectively ensure an adequate energy supply?
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I'm not talking about directly taxing the young but borrowing more money, which means passing on greater national debt to future generations. The more I think about it the more it feels like an investment than a debt.

On your second point how are you going to keep the power on during winter or at night time? This is without even discussing the toxicity of the materials that are used in the manufacture of solar panels.
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Peak power usage is around daylight hours. Whatever we are generating from renewables is far cheaper than fossil fuels making the average wholesale price lower and therefore your bills cheaper.

Obviously, nothing comes for free as Druss says but even battery technology is nothing compared to the supply chain for fossil fuels. Batteries that are too worn for EV use can be easily reused as home storage like the Tesla Powerwall (other manufacturers are available) adding up to a good generation's worth of energy storage before needing to be refurbished.

While the environmental debate is interesting my point was primarily about the economic benefits and energy independence and whether it's worth racking up national debt to achieve it.
 
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