Marcos Senesi

Neil Dawson said:
Random. When? Did it result in a goal? No.
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Why random? You said he doesn't get done like that and he did a couple of times by that Burnley lad. I was surprised because he's very quick in both pace and reaction time but he still gets done from time to time.

When? It was in the game against Burnley. No the keeper saved it I think like Travers should have done yesterday.
 
Waz afcb said:
It’s swings and roundabouts. Who would I rather have defending a long ball over the top? Kelly. Who would I rather have defending a ball into our penalty area? Senesi, every time. I’d imagine Kelly is more attractive to a top side due to the big teams tending to play high defensive lines, but does it mean that he’s a better player? Not necessarily.
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Agree. I really like both players who are both great but clearly have different strengths and weaknesses. Kelly when fit seems to be preferred by most managers, I suspect for the same reasons that he's more likely to be fancied by top clubs. Doesn't take anything away from Senesi though. Another brilliant signing.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Why random? You said he doesn't get done like that and he did a couple of times by that Burnley lad. I was surprised because he's very quick in both pace and reaction time but he still gets done from time to time.

When? It was in the game against Burnley. No the keeper saved it I think like Travers should have done yesterday.
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Did enough to put him off scoring though. Remember this isn’t about whether Senesi is good which is what people keep trying to turn it into a debate about. He is. It’s about the attributes to go to the very top.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Watch the goal again Rob, lots of angles on it. Armstrong had scored one professional goal in 44 games before he got the chance to run at Senesi. Fullbacks attack and get bypassed with the long ball all the time. It was a goal we wouldn’t have conceded had Zab or Kelly been on Armstrong.
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Newsflash Neil,wingers at any level can be quicker than the centre half ,otherwise they would never score or create any goals.
You speak as though a player can never get outpaced ,never get dispossessed or never lose a header.
You used to talk a lot of sense on here and your match reports were always a good well informed read,
But you seem to see football and especially certain signings in a very black and white manner.

Football just isn't like that.

Senesi for what we paid for him was an absolute steal,I think he's one of the best centre backs we have ever had,probably only Nathan Ake surpasses him ,and he cost double what we paid for the Argentinian Broadhurst.
 
For me Senesi and Zabarnyi have made a good centre back pairing this season and Kelly is better at left back.

If we want to finish in a good place and possibly try for a European place in the next season or so, then we need to keep players like our centre back pair and others like Solanke and Cook and Christie who have been great in their midfield role.

Do we still miss Jefferson Lerma? Maybe not.
 
bigfatolly said:
Newsflash Neil,wingers at any level can be quicker than the centre half ,otherwise they would never score or create any goals.
You speak as though a player can never get outpaced ,never get dispossessed or never lose a header.
You used to talk a lot of sense on here and your match reports were always a good well informed read,
But you seem to see football and especially certain signings in a very black and white manner.

Football just isn't like that.

Senesi for what we paid for him was an absolute steal,I think he's one of the best centre backs we have ever had,probably only Nathan Ake surpasses him ,and he cost double what we paid for the Argentinian Broadhurst.
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I know all players can get beat for pace at the top level. If you haven’t got the strength or pace to hold off a championship striker with one goal in 44 you won’t go to an elite club. That’s all I am saying, however much people want to turn it into a debate about whether he is a good signing. For the avoidance of doubt I repeat he is a good signing but Kelly is more likely to go to a bigger club in my opinion.
 
I think that Kelly is the best one on one defender at the club, very, very strong in that area. I also think that Senesi is an overall better defender and his distribution is superb, giving him the edge over Kelly overall. In my very humble opinion, of course! It's a nice problem to have and I think it's clear that both will play at a level higher than where we are currently.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Did enough to put him off scoring though. Remember this isn’t about whether Senesi is good which is what people keep trying to turn it into a debate about. He is. It’s about the attributes to go to the very top.
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No he got skinned and bailed out by the keeper. It happens to all defenders.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I know all players can get beat for pace at the top level. If you haven’t got the strength or pace to hold off a championship striker with one goal in 44 you won’t go to an elite club. That’s all I am saying, however much people want to turn it into a debate about whether he is a good signing. For the avoidance of doubt I repeat he is a good signing but Kelly is more likely to go to a bigger club in my opinion.
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Agree about Kelly but only because he is young and English ,and can also play 2 positions.

I think he'd be a fool to move away because I think his growth has been stunted by the previous managers negative football and we are only now seeing what he's really capable of.

He should sign another 2 year deal and let Iraola work his magic and he will get his move to a top club and still be young enough to have a good career.

If he moves now he'll hardly play and end up being loaned out somewhere in a years time I'm sure of it.
 
rikki39 said:
we have all seen zab and Kelly beaten like that, to me it looked like he was worried about tackling him on his right side, why was he dragged to that side where was meps?
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Meps kind of half heartily trotted back, seemed like he thought his own man wasn't sprinting flat out, so didn't bother himself.

Senesi was done by someone who probably caught him by surprise. I think its more of an error in judgement with how he handled it, and usually wouldn;t allow himself to be skinned like that, through anticipation, positioning etc. Poor team goal to concede imo, I wouldn;t land it all at Senesi feet, although he of course played a big part. Poor team defensive shape and positoning was exposed too easily. Lessons to be learnt imo...

Easy for me to say from my armchair. But typically I'd expect a PL player who knows he's one on one and goal side of a quicker striker, to not simply allow a quick player to bypass with such relative ease. Either dropping off so Mepham or whoever can get back behind to nulify the danger, or deal with him physically - looks like could have '50/50' shoulder barged him? 9 times out of 10 I expect one of those things ... thats what would have happened - yesterday was that one time, where that didn;t happen and ended up almost looking like semi professional standard of defending to let player accelerate past too easily.

Really dont think he's worryingly slow or where the idea top sides are stacked with lightening fast cb's. They aren;t and you don;t need to be either.
 
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bigfatolly said:
Agree about Kelly but only because he is young and English ,and can also play 2 positions.

I think he'd be a fool to move away because I think his growth has been stunted by the previous managers negative football and we are only now seeing what he's really capable of.

He should sign another 2 year deal and let Iraola work his magic and he will get his move to a top club and still be young enough to have a good career.

If he moves now he'll hardly play and end up being loaned out somewhere in a years time I'm sure of it.
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It's unfortunate that the game is this way but he'd be a fool not to move if a top six side come in for him. What is his aim? More money and to play at the top of the game. Hell definitely get more cash now if he goes and he's a lot more likely to play for a top six club if he moves to one than if he stays here. Sure he may not play and then be loaned out in a couple of years but then there no guarantee he'll be any better off if he stays here.

Take the opportunities when they come.
 
Not a Lloyd Kelly thread, but he has had a few incredible performances this season. I have never got on his back, but there have been many times when he has been very poor for us. I have always said he is a left back and like a previous comment mentions that is because he is ridiculously good at 1 on 1's and most of the opposition trickery comes from wingers and not centre forwards.
IMO - Our best back 4 is Kelly (LB), Senessi, Zarbinyi, Aarons - Smudge and Kerkez more than good enough cover for full back and if Zarbinyi or Senessi are unavailable I would prefer to see Kerkez brought in and Kelly shift to CB.
I'm also James Hill can make a Semenyoesque step up under Areola after a great half season in the championship.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
It's unfortunate that the game is this way but he'd be a fool not to move if a top six side come in for him. What is his aim? More money and to play at the top of the game. Hell definitely get more cash now if he goes and he's a lot more likely to play for a top six club if he moves to one than if he stays here. Sure he may not play and then be loaned out in a couple of years but then there no guarantee he'll be any better off if he stays here.

Take the opportunities when they come.
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As we've said on other threads, has to move imo. He'll likely regret it otherwise. Those kind of clubs are another stratosphere to where we are, and ever likely to be... certainly in Kelly's career.

Worse case he'll barely play and he'll move again in a couple of years... a lot more well off and having at least had a shot, and experienced being at an elite club... which if he doesn';t take chance now as entering prime... will likely live to regreat Who knows, he may step up too.

Chance he may barely play and career ends up worse for it, but after two years its likely he'd end up at a club at least similar to our level right now. He'll regret not taking chance at proper big club more, than if he moves and barely plays - at least he tried.

I think its a no brainer - personally, and sadly for us. As we're and he appear to be on a very positive trajectory.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
It's unfortunate that the game is this way but he'd be a fool not to move if a top six side come in for him. What is his aim? More money and to play at the top of the game. Hell definitely get more cash now if he goes and he's a lot more likely to play for a top six club if he moves to one than if he stays here. Sure he may not play and then be loaned out in a couple of years but then there no guarantee he'll be any better off if he stays here.

Take the opportunities when they come.
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Yes. Players talk a lot about the one big contract and then the final contract. Those two moments make you for life and you have to take them when they come.
 
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