Could someone explain this? What is a handball?

Druss_the_Legend

Druss_the_Legend

UTC Legend

And this...


Does anyone understand the handball rule anymore? Doing an impression of the Christ Redeemer while defending is apparently a natural position now. hopefully no more players with arms behind their back...
 
As most of us understand, there is no conspiracy against "smaller" clubs and certainly not against AFCB.
Referees are human and make mistakes - I certainly have made my share when officiating.

Because there was confusion over handling the ball, IFAB has tried to simplify the Law. Regrettably, the English language is very difficult to master and sometimes the words get in the way of the message.

Anyway, anything above the deltoid muscle is not regarded as handball. Below that spot it is a possible infringement. The infringement is called when the player's arm is in an outstretched position, an unnatural position: if you reach out and make your body bigger and the ball hits the arm / hand, then it is an infringement and probably a caution.

The referee must determine whether the player deliberately handled as there are situations where he / she could not get out of the way of the ball, he was too close or it came off his body. Here there is no infringement - but see the next bit.

The complexity arises however depending on the situation.
You cannot score a legitimate goal if the ball hits your arm, even if it is truly accidental and you could not avoid the contact.
Neither can a goal be scored if you handle the ball and it goes to a teammate who scores directly from it.

Just to add to this, if a player slides and the ball hits the arm which is bracing his body on the ground, this is not penalised as handball.

I think what concerns us most, even we match officials, is not the stopping of play, but the inconsistency from game to game. That gives rise to conspiracy theories.
Cheers all.
 
OntarioPhil said:
As most of us understand, there is no conspiracy against "smaller" clubs and certainly not against AFCB.
Referees are human and make mistakes - I certainly have made my share when officiating.

Because there was confusion over handling the ball, IFAB has tried to simplify the Law. Regrettably, the English language is very difficult to master and sometimes the words get in the way of the message.

Anyway, anything above the deltoid muscle is not regarded as handball. Below that spot it is a possible infringement. The infringement is called when the player's arm is in an outstretched position, an unnatural position: if you reach out and make your body bigger and the ball hits the arm / hand, then it is an infringement and probably a caution.

The referee must determine whether the player deliberately handled as there are situations where he / she could not get out of the way of the ball, he was too close or it came off his body. Here there is no infringement - but see the next bit.

The complexity arises however depending on the situation.
You cannot score a legitimate goal if the ball hits your arm, even if it is truly accidental and you could not avoid the contact.
Neither can a goal be scored if you handle the ball and it goes to a teammate who scores directly from it.

Just to add to this, if a player slides and the ball hits the arm which is bracing his body on the ground, this is not penalised as handball.

I think what concerns us most, even we match officials, is not the stopping of play, but the inconsistency from game to game. That gives rise to conspiracy theories.
Cheers all.
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Hi Phil,

I thought you could score if the ball is handled and a team mate scores as long as the handball wasn’t deliberate. So if Solanke had passed it against Shef Utd that goal would have stood as it was accidental handball.

Can you check?
 
Matt Stevenson said:
Hi Phil,

I thought you could score if the ball is handled and a team mate scores as long as the handball wasn’t deliberate. So if Solanke had passed it against Shef Utd that goal would have stood as it was accidental handball.

Can you check?
Click to expand...
You are correct Matt. The key is that your handball is not deemed deliberate.
Under no circumstance can you score from the ball hitting your own arm or hand. It would be best to avoid saying, if the ball is handled, as that suggests a sense of being deliberate. Maybe better to say that the ball hit you.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:

And this...


Does anyone understand the handball rule anymore? Doing an impression of the Christ Redeemer while defending is apparently a natural position now. hopefully no more players with arms behind their back...
Click to expand...
Absolutely criminal.
OntarioPhil said:
I think what concerns us most, even we match officials, is not the stopping of play, but the inconsistency from game to game. That gives rise to conspiracy theories.
Cheers all.
Click to expand...
Is it a conspiracy theory if there's a considerable body of evidence as proof?

Dozens of penalties against, 2 for over something like 500 days. The never seen before or since Burnley goal overturned and penalty conceded or Schar offside but not. When was the last time we got awarded a goal like the West Ham volleyball spike?

Unlike Mulder I don't want to believe but it's hard to put it all down to "inconsistency"
 
This all started when Man City scored a goal where the ball hit the post then rebounded off Agüero‘s hand v Arsenal by accident.

Of course Wenger and co kicked off about it all demanding a rule came in for such things.

Before it used to just be deliberate handball but they changed it to accidental too.

Expect for some reason IFAB went too far in the eyes of many and said any handball by a player in the build up to a goal would see it disallowed.

Now we are back to if the goal scorer handles it still get controversy as we saw at the weekend and in your example above.

Can we say anyone gained a real advantage from the handball in the one you had disallowed ?

Then it’s different rules for defenders .

No wonder officials struggle and we see so much inconsistency and time wasted .
 
OntarioPhil said:
As most of us understand, there is no conspiracy against "smaller" clubs and certainly not against AFCB.
Referees are human and make mistakes - I certainly have made my share when officiating.

Because there was confusion over handling the ball, IFAB has tried to simplify the Law. Regrettably, the English language is very difficult to master and sometimes the words get in the way of the message.

Anyway, anything above the deltoid muscle is not regarded as handball. Below that spot it is a possible infringement. The infringement is called when the player's arm is in an outstretched position, an unnatural position: if you reach out and make your body bigger and the ball hits the arm / hand, then it is an infringement and probably a caution.

The referee must determine whether the player deliberately handled as there are situations where he / she could not get out of the way of the ball, he was too close or it came off his body. Here there is no infringement - but see the next bit.

The complexity arises however depending on the situation.
You cannot score a legitimate goal if the ball hits your arm, even if it is truly accidental and you could not avoid the contact.
Neither can a goal be scored if you handle the ball and it goes to a teammate who scores directly from it.

Just to add to this, if a player slides and the ball hits the arm which is bracing his body on the ground, this is not penalised as handball.

I think what concerns us most, even we match officials, is not the stopping of play, but the inconsistency from game to game. That gives rise to conspiracy theories.
Cheers all.
Click to expand...

While I don't think there's a vendetta against smaller clubs, I do think that it's easier from an official's career standpoint to give wrong decisions against them. We saw this pre-VAR and we're seeing it now, magnified further in the VAR era.

I totally agree that the issue lies within the open interpretation of the rulings. If Stockley Park can't get things consistent then what hope does the man in black have? If they have to introduce physical, measurable criteria which means we at least get a consistent outcome then at least everyone knows where they stand, as they do with offsides now 98% of the time.
 
Red Sky said:
While I don't think there's a vendetta against smaller clubs, I do think that it's easier from an official's career standpoint to give wrong decisions against them. We saw this pre-VAR and we're seeing it now, magnified further in the VAR era.

I totally agree that the issue lies within the open interpretation of the rulings. If Stockley Park can't get things consistent then what hope does the man in black have? If they have to introduce physical, measurable criteria which means we at least get a consistent outcome then at least everyone knows where they stand, as they do with offsides now 98% of the time.
Click to expand...

Yes, not necessarily a deliberate thing, but officials feel pressure/magnitude and fallout more when not ruling in 'big clubs' favour imo.

On close, contentious decisions they're therefor more likely to rule in favour of the big clubs imo.

I don't believe in the lazy ''things even out over the season' at all. They add up and make a difference imo. Lazy trope that let's people off the hook basically.
 
I remember when Jack Wilshere was with us,he said that although he initially didn't believe there was an agenda against smaller clubs ,after playing for us,he could see the bigger clubs definately getting more than their fair share of contentious decisions awarded in their favour.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:

And this...


Does anyone understand the handball rule anymore? Doing an impression of the Christ Redeemer while defending is apparently a natural position now. hopefully no more players with arms behind their back...
Click to expand...

When I refereed in the 80’s I knew it. The rule was, always, hand to ball, not ball to hand, arm, shoulder or elbow. It was much easier then.
 
Red Sky said:
While I don't think there's a vendetta against smaller clubs, I do think that it's easier from an official's career standpoint to give wrong decisions against them. We saw this pre-VAR and we're seeing it now, magnified further in the VAR era.

I totally agree that the issue lies within the open interpretation of the rulings. If Stockley Park can't get things consistent then what hope does the man in black have? If they have to introduce physical, measurable criteria which means we at least get a consistent outcome then at least everyone knows where they stand, as they do with offsides now 98% of the time.
Click to expand...
I'd add to this that the overall standard of refereeing seems very poor in the PL. I know every game is different and every team has a different agenda on trying to gain advantage by play acting but the referee against Luton showed that there is and could be an improvement in officiating if the PGMOL had the balls to act against poor referees. There are good refs out there who should be promoted through their performances and not fast tracked to tick certain boxes. The PGMOL also needs to be more transparent and although Howard Webb comes across as making a difference its always apologising after mistakes have been made. For most clubs although annoying and frustrating it ultimately won't decide their season but for the clubs at the bottom of the league mistakes could potentially cost them millions and millions of pounds in revenue. I think the old saying ' it evens itself out over season ' doesn't apply anymore. Big clubs get the decisions, small clubs don't.
 
OntarioPhil said:
Anyway, anything above the deltoid muscle is not regarded as handball. Below that spot it is a possible infringement. The infringement is called when the player's arm is in an outstretched position, an unnatural position: if you reach out and make your body bigger and the ball hits the arm / hand, then it is an infringement and probably a caution.

The referee must determine whether the player deliberately handled as there are situations where he / she could not get out of the way of the ball, he was too close or it came off his body. Here there is no infringement - but see the next bit..
Click to expand...
I'm not sure of your interpretation, to get to "here there is no infringement".

Surely his arm is in an unnatural position, end of. Whether he doesn't have time to get his arm out of the way, or it's unintentional, or it's a clear and obvious error, doesn't matter. His arm is in an unnatural position, it's not for balance.
 
I think refs like Mike Dean and Gallagher use to come across as arrogant,the better ones would talk to the players on the same level,but I couldn’t be a ref with all the shite they get.
 
Hillviewred said:
I think refs like Mike Dean and Gallagher use to come across as arrogant,the better ones would talk to the players on the same level,but I couldn’t be a ref with all the shite they get.
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Michael Oliver seems to do that more but maybe as he is younger .

The rest probably see players as like young brats who are just being rude !
 
JohnHold said:
I'm not sure of your interpretation, to get to "here there is no infringement".

Surely his arm is in an unnatural position, end of. Whether he doesn't have time to get his arm out of the way, or it's unintentional, or it's a clear and obvious error, doesn't matter. His arm is in an unnatural position, it's not for balance.
Click to expand...
You see, for me, that's clearly ball to arm. You don't want players blasting balls from close range at defenders hoping to get a cheap penalty. And holding your arms close to your body is 'unnatural'. For a sportsman, I wouldn't say his arm is in a position that is unnormal, shall we say. So, no infringment for me.
 
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