VAR

Kudos said:
Sorry, it's just tiresome that as soon as I think I've stripped away the argument that the technology is bad that it just pops right back again through sarcastic humour.

I guess this is ultimately just a circle jerk thread like the Brexit one, where one opinion is valid and we all snigger at 'clever quips' from Twitter.
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Sorry, didn’t realise I was supposed to just agree with you and move on. How daft of me. :)
 
ForHeavensSake said:
Yes, one of the big no no for me is the fact they change the laws to help VAR and not using VAR to support what were the rules. The handball rule is now so confusing as is a foul on the edge/entering the box, or the "not enough for me" but would be a foul anywhere else on the pitch. It's become a mess, and as you write, removing the emotional aspect of so much in the game.
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Totally agree but I’ve already been down that rabbit hole already and received full barrels for it…
 
RobTrent said:
But you can’t strip away the argument an y more than I can for making the argument that it’s not really improved it.
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I'm yet to hear a case where a still image accurate to with 0.015 seconds with a decent line drawn on it is worse than a bloke having a punt from the side-lines.

The technology should be able to tell within 5/10 seconds if it's an obvious offside. If it isn't, consistently give benefit of the doubt one way or the other. Any longer delay is a culture problem not a technology one.

DJ said:
Sorry, didn’t realise I was supposed to just agree with you and move on. How daft of me. :)
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You don't have to agree but you could debate in good faith.
 
Kudos said:
I'm yet to hear a case where a still image accurate to with 0.015 seconds with a decent line drawn on it is worse than a bloke having a punt from the side-lines.

The technology should be able to tell within 5/10 seconds if it's an obvious offside. If it isn't, consistently give benefit of the doubt one way or the other. Any longer delay is a culture problem not a technology one.
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The technology can’t tell in that time frame. All grounds have cameras at different angles, that’s why the lines take so long to be implemented as they have to calculate the correct angles etc etc.


Kudos said:
You don't have to agree but you could debate in good faith.
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Sorry but I don’t think you can dictate how someone holds a debate. Personally I choose to be jovial rather than overtly serious or passive aggressive.

As long as someone isn’t using vulgar language every other sentence, or being insulting, I think the discussion is being held in good faith.
 
Kudos said:
I'm yet to hear a case where a still image accurate to with 0.015 seconds with a decent line drawn on it is worse than a bloke having a punt from the side-lines.

The technology should be able to tell within 5/10 seconds if it's an obvious offside. If it isn't, consistently give benefit of the doubt one way or the other. Any longer delay is a culture problem not a technology one.


You don't have to agree but you could debate in good faith.
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But the technology doesn’t tell anything. It’s scrutinised and re scrutinised over and over. To me it subtracts from the game.
 
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RobTrent said:
But the technology doesn’t tell anything. It’s scrutinised and re scrutinised over and over. To me it subtracts from the game.
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I don't believe that is true most of the time but when it is it tells me that it's not being used correctly.

DJ said:
The technology can’t tell in that time frame. All grounds have cameras at different angles, that’s why the lines take so long to be implemented as they have to calculate the correct angles etc etc.

Sorry but I don’t think you can dictate how someone holds a debate. Personally I choose to be jovial rather than overtly serious or passive aggressive.

As long as someone isn’t using vulgar language every other sentence, or being insulting, I think the discussion is being held in good faith.
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The cameras are calibrated before the game they don't wait for a potential offside and then fly into a panic. Although we have seen them somehow manage to f*ck that up.

My fatigue at being subjected to the 100th "measuring [insert humorous body part] to the nearest atom" joke just as it feels like I'm getting the nub of an issue isn't an attempt to dictate debate just a reflection of my disappointment that the debate has reached the point where it's just going to be exchanging barbs. Nothing personal but I don't get anything out of that.
 
Kudos said:
I don't believe that is true most of the time but when it is it tells me that it's not being used correctly.


The cameras are calibrated before the game they don't wait for a potential offside and then fly into a panic. Although we have seen them somehow manage to f*ck that up.

My fatigue at being subjected to the 100th "measuring [insert humorous body part] to the nearest atom" joke just as it feels like I'm getting the nub of an issue isn't an attempt to dictate debate just a reflection of my disappointment that the debate has reached the point where it's just going to be exchanging barbs. Nothing personal but I don't get anything out of that.
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You like it, I don’t. Seems a good place to leave it!
 
RobTrent said:
You like it, I don’t. Seems a good place to leave it!
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I think using technology is a sensible idea and that the technology is good.

I don't like way the technology is used as it shouldn't compromise the game as a spectacle which it can definitely do.
 
Kudos said:
Why bother with a referee on the pitch then?
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The whole point of var is supposedly to create certainty or correct clear and obvious errors but whatever the merits of the technology it does not exist in a vacuum and in most instances it cannot be perfect because it relies on human interpretation. So in terms of people's enjoyment of the game they should just stick with the onfield officials decisions otherwise you might as well just keep asking an infinite number of refs what they think. I'm happy to accept that the PL mis-use of it is appalling but in my opinion it's making refs worse in the same way that some people can't do sums in their head anymore because they rely on calculators to do it for them, which is fine until they start inputting the wrong figures.
 
I think the issue here is that there's no going back and we probably have to accept it's here to stay. I guess the more tech they throw at it might improve the decision making process for the humans. I don't watch enough European football to know if they mainly get it right over there or it's a problem with our officials.
 
red_house said:
I think the issue here is that there's no going back and we probably have to accept it's here to stay. I guess the more tech they throw at it might improve the decision making process for the humans. I don't watch enough European football to know if they mainly get it right over there or it's a problem with our officials.
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They said that about rail seating ;-)
 
Johnny Comelately said:
The whole point of var is supposedly to create certainty or correct clear and obvious errors but whatever the merits of the technology it does not exist in a vacuum and in most instances it cannot be perfect because it relies on human interpretation. So in terms of people's enjoyment of the game they should just stick with the onfield officials decisions otherwise you might as well just keep asking an infinite number of refs what they think. I'm happy to accept that the PL mis-use of it is appalling but in my opinion it's making refs worse in the same way that some people can't do sums in their head anymore because they rely on calculators to do it for them, which is fine until they start inputting the wrong figures.
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I think lino's keeping their flags down is ridiculous, especially for reasons like Toronto was saying. I don't think referees are necessarily worse just that the decisions are given a bit more scrutiny but that's pretty subjective.

My point is that perfection is impossible but improvement is desirable so long as it doesn't hurt the flow of the game. It does hurt the flow of the game. I don't think that is cause to throw it away but to work on the culture around it's usage.

Anyway, I think I should retire from this thread :tophat:
 
….sorry but all VAR seems to have done is stall the matches…become so minutely forensic….and in the main passed on the decisions from the Referee to another in a room full of cameras…

I say let the officials referee the game as humans who may occasionally make an error…and those big clubs pulling the strings of this thing suffer the fate of the outcomes!

It is truly pizzing me off each week!
 
red_house said:
I think the issue here is that there's no going back and we probably have to accept it's here to stay. I guess the more tech they throw at it might improve the decision making process for the humans. I don't watch enough European football to know if they mainly get it right over there or it's a problem with our officials.
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It’s equally a shambles in Scotland from the few games I’ve seen and elsewhere on the continent some games have been held up in a legal dispute with demands for games to be replayed.

It’s almost like the use of technology in football is a deeply flawed process for anything other than “matter of fact” decisions.
 
USCherry said:
Based on stuff I have googled, it seems that VAR is not as popular here in england as it is in other (european) leagues. I wonder why that is? Is it how it has been implemented here vs there? I can't imagine that German, Spanish, Italian fans are less passionate than english ones
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Maybe we just don’t hear about the errors week on week ?

Just in European games where the officials are going to be better - hopefully!

VAR was never going to get everything “right “ as most decisions are subjective.

If that is what people expected out of VAR then they were mistaken and should have been told so at start rather than being promised it would clear things up and there would be nothing go to debate .

TBH the main issue for fans seems to be how slow the system is and the lack of communication more than anything else.
 
How anyone can look at that Ashley Young tackle at the weekend and not think the ref's made a clear and obvious error is beyond me. But the var official looked at it and even with the benefit of slomo didn't think it was worth telling the ref he'd got it wrong.
 
The clue is in the name
Video Assistant Referee

VAR is a tool to help the on field officials make more correct decisions.

The inconsistent use of the tool has made it the scapegoat for the failing of the pgmol to improve the performance of its officials,
 
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