Arsenal v AFC Bournemouth - Saturday 12.30 pm

VAR has been a pain for a long time. But today really got to me. I’m not angry or frustrated, although I was. I just feel kind of sad, maybe helpless, resigned even about what is being lost.

If the Arsenal penalty was one then there should be 100s more than there are. It was a dive. A trailing foot deliberately making contact with a stationary leg that was flat on the ground. Cheating, simulation, a dive.

If Dom fouled the keeper then there should be 20 penalties every game. If the incident had been the other way would we have had a penalty? Of course not. And we wouldn’t have expected it.

If billing wasn’t fouled then how can Dom’s be a foul?

Both decisions were wrong. I don’t understand the clear and obvious error thing. Is being wrong not enough. If the first one wasn’t a foul then it wasn’t. If the ref though it was a foul and it wasn’t the. It was an error. Pretty clear and pretty obvious.

And the commentators go along with it. Call it for what it is. Two wrong decisions that deprived us of a really good game.

Would Arsenal have won? Almost certainly. But it’s not about the result it’s about the way that they’re ruining the game.
 
fritter said:
VAR has been a pain for a long time. But today really got to me. I’m not angry or frustrated, although I was. I just feel kind of sad, maybe helpless, resigned even about what is being lost.

If the Arsenal penalty was one then there should be 100s more than there are. It was a dive. A trailing foot deliberately making contact with a stationary leg that was flat on the ground. Cheating, simulation, a dive.

If Dom fouled the keeper then there should be 20 penalties every game. If the incident had been the other way would we have had a penalty? Of course not. And we wouldn’t have expected it.

If billing wasn’t fouled then how can Dom’s be a foul?

Both decisions were wrong. I don’t understand the clear and obvious error thing. Is being wrong not enough. If the first one wasn’t a foul then it wasn’t. If the ref though it was a foul and it wasn’t the. It was an error. Pretty clear and pretty obvious.

And the commentators go along with it. Call it for what it is. Two wrong decisions that deprived us of a really good game.

Would Arsenal have won? Almost certainly. But it’s not about the result it’s about the way that they’re ruining the game.
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To be fair, the ref gave the pen. The ref ruled out the goal. The ref gave Scott a yellow when he didnt touch the arsenal player.

VAR is an issue that needs resolving but it was the ref who had a shock AGAIN today. He really is the worst ref in this league. I dont understand how he keeps getting games when he always makes mistakes.
 
Audenshaw Cherry said:
Enraged!!!!

From the start I would say that Arsenal probably deserved to win, but:

The penalty was a complete joke. Havartz has totally conned the ref and VAR!! How could they give it, I honestly don’t know. (NB: Arsenal have been given 6 penalties in the last 8 games -not surprising if the refs are as gullible as todays)

The decision to disallow our ‘goal’ is also unfathomable. The keeper charged out and made a complete Horlicks of it , with minimal, if not any contact. It had to be a goal or a penalty to us as Billing had been pulled all over the place just beforehand. Goal disallowed.

It did look like Christie did tag Sako but after all their diving who could tell.

Second half we really pushed hard. Just a shame that we were playing against 12 man AND VAR!!
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To make things worse, I still don’t get a ‘reject all’ button to enable to use this site on my IPod. Very frustrating.

(I just thought that I’d sneak that in, as nothing has changed in the past few days) IPhone fine, PC fine but IPod not fine.
 
fritter said:
VAR has been a pain for a long time. But today really got to me. I’m not angry or frustrated, although I was. I just feel kind of sad, maybe helpless, resigned even about what is being lost.

If the Arsenal penalty was one then there should be 100s more than there are. It was a dive. A trailing foot deliberately making contact with a stationary leg that was flat on the ground. Cheating, simulation, a dive.

If Dom fouled the keeper then there should be 20 penalties every game. If the incident had been the other way would we have had a penalty? Of course not. And we wouldn’t have expected it.

If billing wasn’t fouled then how can Dom’s be a foul?

Both decisions were wrong. I don’t understand the clear and obvious error thing. Is being wrong not enough. If the first one wasn’t a foul then it wasn’t. If the ref though it was a foul and it wasn’t the. It was an error. Pretty clear and pretty obvious.

And the commentators go along with it. Call it for what it is. Two wrong decisions that deprived us of a really good game.

Would Arsenal have won? Almost certainly. But it’s not about the result it’s about the way that they’re ruining the game.
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"It's not football any more" sums it up
 
fritter said:
But VAR could tell him he's wrong?
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Likewise I thought that was the point of sodding VAR.

I didn't go so had to endure the whole build up, the deluded commentators, the terrible decisions on the box.

The whole spectacle from the crowd and the Arsenal players baying for every single decision, to the commentary fawning all over them, made me sick.

The whole thing stinks. A multi billion pound, world wide industry dependant on them turning us over today to extend the season and by hook or by crook it was going to happen one way or another. The thing is they don't even hide it anymore so what's the point.

Arsenal appear to have captured the world by being a load of utter cnuts on and off the pitch and having some kind of new, weird fanbase. Everywhere you go, whatever country you're in, you bump into newly established fake gooners who obviously couldn't really bring it on themselves to support city.
 
fritter said:
VAR has been a pain for a long time. But today really got to me. I’m not angry or frustrated, although I was. I just feel kind of sad, maybe helpless, resigned even about what is being lost.

If the Arsenal penalty was one then there should be 100s more than there are. It was a dive. A trailing foot deliberately making contact with a stationary leg that was flat on the ground. Cheating, simulation, a dive.

If Dom fouled the keeper then there should be 20 penalties every game. If the incident had been the other way would we have had a penalty? Of course not. And we wouldn’t have expected it.

If billing wasn’t fouled then how can Dom’s be a foul?

Both decisions were wrong. I don’t understand the clear and obvious error thing. Is being wrong not enough. If the first one wasn’t a foul then it wasn’t. If the ref though it was a foul and it wasn’t the. It was an error. Pretty clear and pretty obvious.

And the commentators go along with it. Call it for what it is. Two wrong decisions that deprived us of a really good game.

Would Arsenal have won? Almost certainly. But it’s not about the result it’s about the way that they’re ruining the game.
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Wish I could like this twice. Exactly what I feel. Gone beyond getting angry about it. I wonder how many other products exist in the world with none of its customers wanting it.

To be fair on the pen I’ve cheered Calum Wilson doing the exact same so can’t be hypocritical although neither todays or Calum’s should have been given. The disallowed goal though… shameful and we’d have had a cracking ten mins after that at least. Like I said on the Forest thread, I hate Forest and want them to go down but I’m so glad they spoke out offensively about it as it needs more people to do this. I don’t think anyone is conning anyone but it’s showing up the inadequacies of English refereeing when they can’t agree on something on a tv in front of them.
 
Druss_the_Legend said:
To be fair, the ref gave the pen. The ref ruled out the goal. The ref gave Scott a yellow when he didnt touch the arsenal player.

VAR is an issue that needs resolving but it was the ref who had a shock AGAIN today. He really is the worst ref in this league. I dont understand how he keeps getting games when he always makes mistakes.
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I think the problem is how var is used....if the ref gives that in years gone by you would say oh well the ref got conned ....call the opposing player a cheating cnt and move on...we've seen plenty of our own players do it tbf......but how can var look at a player clearly diving to win a penalty and not intervene?......it's absolutely bonkers.....it couldn't be more 'clear and obvious' .......at least advise the ref to go and have a look at it.......either scrap var or let var make all the decisions inside the box.......this var merely backing up refs opinions can't go on.
 
Topfarrier said:
I think the problem is how var is used....if the ref gives that in years gone by you would say oh well the ref got conned ....call the opposing player a cheating cnt and move on...we've seen plenty of our own players do it tbf......but how can var look at a player clearly diving to win a penalty and not intervene?......it's absolutely bonkers.....it couldn't be more 'clear and obvious' .......at least advise the ref to go and have a look at it.......either scrap var or let var make all the decisions inside the box.......this var merely backing up refs opinions can't go on.
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This. The only point in Video officiating in any sport is to clear stuff up with the benefit of multiple angles and time. In every other sport it clears stuff up. In football in this county it just obfuscates it further. Thats just bonkers.
 
fritter said:
VAR has been a pain for a long time. But today really got to me. I’m not angry or frustrated, although I was. I just feel kind of sad, maybe helpless, resigned even about what is being lost.

If the Arsenal penalty was one then there should be 100s more than there are. It was a dive. A trailing foot deliberately making contact with a stationary leg that was flat on the ground. Cheating, simulation, a dive.

If Dom fouled the keeper then there should be 20 penalties every game. If the incident had been the other way would we have had a penalty? Of course not. And we wouldn’t have expected it.

If billing wasn’t fouled then how can Dom’s be a foul?

Both decisions were wrong. I don’t understand the clear and obvious error thing. Is being wrong not enough. If the first one wasn’t a foul then it wasn’t. If the ref though it was a foul and it wasn’t the. It was an error. Pretty clear and pretty obvious.

And the commentators go along with it. Call it for what it is. Two wrong decisions that deprived us of a really good game.

Would Arsenal have won? Almost certainly. But it’s not about the result it’s about the way that they’re ruining the game.
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Brilliant post, and Audenshaw’s too, I couldn’t agree more.

Just to see if we’re making too much of a fuss about this, I’ve just watched both incidents back on Sky which we recorded, and can’t believe how those decisions were made. Really disappointing Havertz admitting he only “went down” because he “felt a touch” (and we’re not talking Dibby’s touch on Table here), and the pundits saying how clever he was to get the pen. No- it’s CHEATING, it’s simple, it’s cheating. Travers did not bring Havertz down, Havertz decided to go down when he didn’t need to, he wasn’t tripped, he wasn’t overbalanced, so in reality is a dive. Shocking decision, license to con refs and the crowd, and a stain on the game. And our disallowed goal- where do you start? Two wrong decisions- obvious foul on Phil Bill then no foul on Raya.

Yes, maybe Arsenal would’ve won, but it feels like we were really cheated and weren’t given a chance to compete. Christie’s rake on Saka BTW- should’ve been a yellow IMO- Arsenal fans calling for a red must’ve been in the sun too long.
 
Rob151060 said:
Brilliant post, and Audenshaw’s too, I couldn’t agree more.

Just to see if we’re making too much of a fuss about this, I’ve just watched both incidents back on Sky which we recorded, and can’t believe how those decisions were made. Really disappointing Havertz admitting he only “went down” because he “felt a touch” (and we’re not talking Dibby’s touch on Table here), and the pundits saying how clever he was to get the pen. No- it’s CHEATING, it’s simple, it’s cheating. Travers did not bring Havertz down, Havertz decided to go down when he didn’t need to, he wasn’t tripped, he wasn’t overbalanced, so in reality is a dive. Shocking decision, license to con refs and the crowd, and a stain on the game. And our disallowed goal- where do you start? Two wrong decisions- obvious foul on Phil Bill then no foul on Raya.

Yes, maybe Arsenal would’ve won, but it feels like we were really cheated and weren’t given a chance to compete. Christie’s rake on Saka BTW- should’ve been a yellow IMO- Arsenal fans calling for a red must’ve been in the sun too long.
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They must spend hours in training working on the stride pattern to leave a leg trailing like that
 
Having calmed down a bit, I was thinking about VAR decisions in our favour this season. We've had a few, recently against Everton and Wolves off the top of my head. But have we ever, ever had a contentious decision go for us against a big 6 club? If so I can't remember it
 
drd said:
Having calmed down a bit, I was thinking about VAR decisions in our favour this season. We've had a few, recently against Everton and Wolves off the top of my head. But have we ever, ever had a contentious decision go for us against a big 6 club? If so I can't remember it
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If a contentious var decision goes against a big club, it makes the news and officials are removed from their posts. If a contentious decision goes against a small club, the world moves on and nobody bats an eyelid. What would you do if you were a ref or a var official?
 
Neil Dawson said:
This. The only point in Video officiating in any sport is to clear stuff up with the benefit of multiple angles and time. In every other sport it clears stuff up. In football in this county it just obfuscates it further. Thats just bonkers.
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Not really, Neil. It is still contentious in all the NA sports, I'd say NBA is worst but that might be my bias. NFL is often a joke, compromised by unclear (and annually changing) rules, especially pass interference and what constitutes a "legal catch". MLB and NHL not bad, but still can be very long reviews which implies that the call on the field (or the ice) was not obviously incorrect (baseball has the safe/out call, especially at first base where it is very often "bang-bang" and the analysis includes super slo-mo to determine did the foot get down on the bag before the ball gets into the glove, with the latter coloured by "into the glove" meaning within the normal pocket of the glove if not necessarily yet caught).

Baseball has tinkered with an automated strike zone at the minor leagues (ball/strike call happens on virtually every pitch, and lines are very fine) but there have been many glitches.

In the end, other than completely binary calls - goal technology or offside - VAR serves no purpose as it is still operated by humans who make mistakes. Annual changes in the rules and how they are applied don't help much either.
 
drd said:
Having calmed down a bit, I was thinking about VAR decisions in our favour this season. We've had a few, recently against Everton and Wolves off the top of my head. But have we ever, ever had a contentious decision go for us against a big 6 club? If so I can't remember it
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I don't know why but I just remembered the penalty at Liverpool reading this, another dive, with clear air between players.

Then there is the most contrived incredulous decision ever at Newcastle, before we move on to the Man Utd shambles.

West Ham penalty, we never get that, and so it goes on.

Happens to Wolves, Forest, its not just us, but what's the point if the league isn't fair?

Tenth is remarkable, overlaid against the above and probably loads more I have forgotten about.

We haven't even been the team most harshly treated this season. I love my team, but I hate the PL, and I am falling out of love with football generally. Not sure where we go from here. I'm so naive, I thought VAR would sort this crap out, how wrong was I, its just made it ten times worse.
 
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