Are we in danger of doing a Charlton?

Brents Goulet

New Signing
Let me start up front with 3 big caveats

1. I went to The New Den and we are dreadful, no arguments

2. No manager is above criticism

3. This MB is the place for people to say what the hell they like

That all said, I do worry that the reaction from some people to the Millwall game is crazy. In fact, the reactions to almost every defeat this season seem to be a little extreme.

I understand why most people disagree with the policy of making 11 changes, and it's hard to defend after that result. In reply:

25 points doesn't make us safe, or even nearly safe. We still need at least 5 wins and we all know how easy it is to lose games in this league. The way the table is, if we beat Hull we'll be dreaming of the Europa League, and if we lose we'll be looking over our shoulder.

We are only in our second season in this league; we are not by any means an established club here who can afford not to prioritise the league yet. If we were 16th for e.g. everyone would want us to focus on staying up; Middlesbrough are 16th and only 6 points behind.

Next point; our success is based on continuity of players and making minimal changes; we rotate less than others, freshen up less than others, and rely on the same small nucleus of players. The positive is that gives us continuity, cohesion and partnerships all over the pitch from players who play together every week. And you'd have to say it works as an approach.

The downside is fatigue, and lack of game time for squad players. The Arsenal game at the end of a busy xmas will have taken more out of the players than we can imagine, especially not getting the win we deserved. So I think we probably need to trust EH to know what players need resting to be at their best for Hull. Unless anyone here believes we are in a position where we don't need to be at our best for Hull. I cant believe anyone does.

We also have squad players who need game time so they are game ready when called upon. All the Under-21 games in the world don't replace real games. So we made changes. Maybe too many, maybe it wasn't the right approach, but the idea EH must apologise and has disrespected anything is ridiculous to me. Millwall will have been watched, and the team would have prepared the same way for this game as any other. It's just that we were dreadful on the day.

Final thought...it is just ten years ago that many Charlton fans felt Alan Curbishley has taken them as far as they could go. They got complacent with their success, and lost sight of their own reality. They were in the top half of the Premier League at the time. Those fans, with hindsight, didn't lack ambition, they lacked reality. I worry some of our own fans are going down a similar path.

 
Just shows how poor, the squad players are, and setting them up to lose at Millwall is not going to help them one bit.

Hull have a two legged league cup game plus a fourth round game
Burnley / Sunderland / Palace / Saints all have replys
Boro / Leicester / Watford have at least another game

We now have a free weekend to rest !

Are we saying that we are so paper thin after paying £££££ out in transfers, we only have 15 / 16 player too call on ?
 
I am sure someone will be along with an alternative view in a moment, oh hold on ....

:grin:

FWIW I mostly agree although I think there is a danger in staying a little too loyal to the core team. For example the convoluted manner of keeping Francis and Adam Smith in the team when the obvious thing to do would be to make Adam the first choice right back. But then what do I know.
 
Agree with some of it. I definitely don't think we'll need 5 wins though and I'd say there is about a 1% chance of being relegated, which is why people are angry.
 
No. It's quite simple - its his job to pick a side that can win yet his cup sides have been crap for two years with this mass changes policy. I can handle losing (just about) when players and managers are giving their all but not when they don't give a sh*t. He needs to understand how pissed off people are. I tend to stick up for his selections in the league because he always does what he thinks is best for winning the game - did he do that on Saturday? I moaned last time he stitched us in the cups, I'm moaning now and I'll moan next time.

Also, half your argument doesn't make sense - how many players benefitted from that game time? They all took a step back as most of them did vs Preston.
 
...the reality is that we have achieved our current status with some significant investment from our owners, a large chunk of that has gone on players, presumably the ones Howe wanted? Many of those have failed to deliver ie Rantie, Ibe, Grabban, Mousset, Gradel, and Afobe. That represents a huge amount of money!

I will be criticised for saying this but it would appear that the most gifted thing Howe has is his ability to improve players like Arter, Surman,Francis, Cook,Smith,Daniels,Stanislas,Pugh,King and Fraser and these are guys who cost peanuts by comparison?

Apart from Wilson I can't see a big money buy who has really worked for us?

If I was the owner of AFCB I might be questioning the spending of big bucks at the risk of more poor returns?

We could get ourselves into trouble and one day Howe will be gone, probably when we need him the most!
 
What did a good cup run do for Palace last season. They ended up with the fewest points of the 92 clubs in 2016.
Now this season they are in a relegation struggle and last week lost at home to Swansea and now they have a cup replay with Bolton to come and possibly a 4th round match. That may be 2 extra games in the run up to their game with us.
I would have thought that if I were a Palace supporter I would be looking at envy at AFCB's fresh legs in the coming weeks.
 
Garbo - 9/1/2017 10:13

...the reality is that we have achieved our current status with some significant investment from our owners, a large chunk of that has gone on players, presumably the ones Howe wanted? Many of those have failed to deliver ie Rantie, Ibe, Grabban, Mousset, Gradel, and Afobe. That represents a huge amount of money!

I will be criticised for saying this but it would appear that the most gifted thing Howe has is his ability to improve players like Arter, Surman,Francis, Cook,Smith,Daniels,Stanislas,Pugh,King and Fraser and these are guys who cost peanuts by comparison?

Apart from Wilson I can't see a big money buy who has really worked for us?

If I was the owner of AFCB I might be questioning the spending of big bucks at the risk of more poor returns?

We could get ourselves into trouble and one day Howe will be gone, probably when we need him the most!

:110:
 
Why on earth do people keep saying we are safe. Go on a 4 game losing streak and none of you will be saying that.

Garbo - you could argue Afobe was good business. Without those few goals this time last year we would have been in the mire. He's still got a lot of work to do though.
 
We won't be in financial trouble for as long as we remain in the Premier League.....which brings us full circle back to the reason he is prioritising the league....

Silent AFCB, you may be right about your points prediction, but you may be wrong too.....and personally I'd prefer a manager who didn't take chances with our league status in what is our second season here, no?

Garbo, I'm not sure we can write off Ibe and Mousset quite yet, for fear of looking stupid next season (like some of us did with Josh King); both are young and ones for the future, and I doubt you or anyone else would doubt his ability to improve young players over a long period of time (but perhaps not 6 months)

Also Garbo, I think if I was the owner of this club I'd wake up every morning and thank my lucky stars I have EH as manager, and the Premier League revenue as a result.....no manager is perfect as I'm sure we'll find out with Eddie's successor

I agree not all of his big signings have come off, I'm sure he would too

SDD, I also agree the game time given to those players didn't end up helping them, but that is their challenge. He gives then a platform to play and put their hand up for the first team, and they don't take it....is that his fault or theirs?

 
Fraser wasn't an overnight first pick in the starting XI, Gradel seems to be still recovering from the long time out injured.
Huge amount of money in PL terms is £30M+, Ibe, Afobe, Mousset, Mings, Smith may or may not come good.
A factor in past seasons was the experienced old pro like Harte and Distin, Marc Wilson doesn't seem to be doing that role so well this season.
 
We are safe because this season, the teams below us are playing dire football. Can you really see clubs like Palace, West Ham, Hull, Swansea, Sunderland finishing above us.

Even so the FA Cup remains an unnecessary distraction and Eddie did right by his team selection last Saturday and ensuring that the side were totally underprepared for the game.
 
I was sat in the Broadway pub on Saturday with six other cherries who go to all the home and a few away games. Not one of them was really bothered about going out of the cup.
This board and the echo always has a lot of over reaction.
Thank god that shminto or what ever he calls himself doesn't post on here. :grin:
 
borisatha - 9/1/2017 10:29

I was sat in the Broadway pub on Saturday with six other cherries who go to all the home and a few away games. Not one of them was really bothered about going out of the cup.
This board and the echo always has a lot of over reaction.
Thank god that shminto or what ever he calls himself doesn't post on here. :grin:

He does, it's Al :hihi:
 
Ha ha ha, Brent's Goulet is to Eddie Howe what badkeeper is to Boruc.

You know there's been an almighty cock-up when one of his threads appears. Item 1 on Eddies to-do list - get relevant minion to pen suitable "alternative view". :grin:
 
We haven't had a good return on our Prem signings but being in prem pushes up fees. Also unfair re mings and gradel due to sickening injuries which prompted expensive signings in January (i.e. grabban and afobe). Thus can spend a lot for poor quality - look at Man City with mangala and otamendi. I expect it's hard to attract players as many will fear relegation or Eddie leaving. The profile of ake and Wilshere may now help us. The club strategy though is developing younger players which means both players and fans need to be patient. In that respect Lewis cook, mousset and hyndman are decent signings IMHO. Like many though I feel the lack of quality signings in defence has been puzzling.
 
I largely agree with you Garbo, however, I don't think you can include Afobe in the list of big names not cutting it, as he is seemingly finding his form at last...

But the rest... Howe does not seem to handle the big buys very well, judging for the list you've posted... The thing is, when you spend £15 million on a player, you'd expect said player to make an instant impact... Ibe has not done that, and does not seem to have learnt for his errors, in fact he seems to have gone backwards and now looks to have less confidence than when he came here...

Eddie certainly has his work cut out for him with Ibe...

This gores for the rest as well... For a club like us to field a 'reserve side' worth £50 million and see our 'starting XI' battle Arsenal, and cost a small fraction of that, is where people are getting concerned...

The Grabbs buy was simply ridiculous, despite Eddie perhaps thinking he fitted what we needed, at that time, to pay near 3 times what we sold him for, with him not exactly setting the World alight at Norwich, was madness, and now we're stuck with what seems an average Championship player, and a lot to recoup...

Mousette looks like he needs to keep his mouth shut (if true) and get his head down and give Eddie a decision to make... Didn't really do too much on Saturday to change his mind on him...

No one knows about Gradel, I can only guess 'hissy fit' or lack of confidence... Maybe not being played in the hole where I think everyone agrees he could be awesome for us...

I just think Eddie needs to revaluate his policy of buying players for serious money and not getting them into the side as soon as poss... We need to start to rotate more and include players more in the PL, so as to avoid last Saturday again... But of course only if they're ready, which for serious money, they should be...

We 'do' have some quality in that XI that faced Millwall... Just not as a collective XI we don't... They need some experience sat with them...
 

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