Gary O'Neil

Kudos said:
Pretty sure the red top "dropped referee" stories are repeatedly shown to be nonsense.
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Also found this.

Football referee Simon Hooper and his two video assistants in Manchester United's 1-0 win over Wolves on Monday night have been stood down from next week's Premier League fixtures following a late penalty controversy.

news.sky.com

Manchester United v Wolves: Referees dropped after VAR penalty controversy

Referee Simon Hooper, VAR Michael Salisbury, and assistant VAR Richard West are dropped for next weekend's round of Premier League fixtures following the controversy during Wolves's 1-0 defeat at Old Trafford.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
The problem with the refs talking about decisions afterward, it would be in their minds when they make their decisions. And they know whatever they say will be savaged by the pundits, who are mostly there to pump up the big six. So there's a decent chance they'd give even more decisions in favour of those clubs to try and avoid a mauling, especially the tight ones. The decisions when we play those clubs are already pretty horrendous, refs explaining themselves afterward would probably make things worse.
 
kirsikka said:
The problem with the refs talking about decisions afterward, it would be in their minds when they make their decisions. And they know whatever they say will be savaged by the pundits, who are mostly there to pump up the big six. So there's a decent chance they'd give even more decisions in favour of those clubs to try and avoid a mauling, especially the tight ones. The decisions when we play those clubs are already pretty horrendous, refs explaining themselves afterward would probably make things worse.
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Make the assessors reports available on the FA website is an easy improvement
 
JIMNNINA said:
VAR useless = scrap it now
PGMOL not fit for purpose = stick with it and expect no improvement

What a knotty problem to solve
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I honestly think you are the only person who cares about PGMOL so much. Most people want things to improve. Whether that is by reforming PGMOL or scrapping it and creating a completely new organisation is immaterial. It's the outcomes that are important to the average fan not the organisation implementing them.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Based on what? Unless you watch loads of mid table German league games you'll only ever see their best refs in action. That's not to say the PL couldn't recruit their best refs though.
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The best ref in Spain was branded a joke at the World Cup after the Argentina v Netherlands match but yes there will be those who always seem to impress like the Polish chap who did the WC final and Champions league one .

That is why UEFA/FIFA pick them but like you say who knows how good the middle ranked officials are .

There are many complaining about VAR across Europe and the world - not just here .
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Based on what? Unless you watch loads of mid table German league games you'll only ever see their best refs in action. That's not to say the PL couldn't recruit their best refs though.
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I think generally when you watch champions league it’s a higher standard of reffing. We only have ten games a weekend. We should export our refs too. Less chance of growing up hating a team or long battles with particular managers who have slagged you off before or players you have a bias against. I’ve all been for international sharing of top refs for big games.
 
Derek was talking about league games between mid table sides though - are the officials better even at that level ?

We have 2/3,Champions league standard officials ourselves but a poor drop off maybe.

I think players and managers tend to have issues with officials rather than them hating a team or having a biased against a player although some will have a certain reputation and obviously there is pressure from some clubs more than others .
 
Neil Dawson said:
I think generally when you watch champions league it’s a higher standard of reffing. We only have ten games a weekend. We should export our refs too. Less chance of growing up hating a team or long battles with particular managers who have slagged you off before or players you have a bias against. I’ve all been for international sharing of top refs for big games.
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As I say, it's a better standard because they select the best refs from across the continent. That's not to say that German refs are 'generally better'. I expect if you speak to German mid table supporters they'll say how shite the standard is and how Bayern get all the decisions.

Getting international refs might improve standards because you'd be picking the best like UEFA do but I don't think it will solve big club bias personally. They are biased not because they grew up supporting big clubs but because they know the fall out of giving 50/50s against big clubs is greater. Same as the bias for decisions against home teams.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
Based on what? Unless you watch loads of mid table German league games you'll only ever see their best refs in action. That's not to say the PL couldn't recruit their best refs though.
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Ha on same wavelength with this one too... was thinking just that.

I'm sure their refs come until similar scrutiny abroad for bread and butter fixtures, particularly if involving the big clubs.

Unless people from different cultures are 'bred' in different ways so have different characteristics that make them more likely to become better match officials... bur that's a stretch, as ultimately they're still human (as far as I know), with all their foibles and flaws.

What's Collina up to these days? Perhaps we can tempt him out of retirement before the Saudis get in their fast.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
As I say, it's a better standard because they select the best refs from across the continent. That's not to say that German refs are 'generally better'. I expect if you speak to German mid table supporters they'll say how shite the standard is and how Bayern get all the decisions.

Getting international refs might improve standards because you'd be picking the best like UEFA do but I don't think it will solve big club bias personally. They are biased not because they grew up supporting big clubs but because they know the fall out of giving 50/50s against big clubs is greater. Same as the bias for decisions against home teams.
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I think there's something psychological that goes on when people officiate big clubs... even if just subconscious and not a deliberate bias most of the time.

I think big clubs are aware of the effect they have on officials, that goes back to the Fergie days and use it to their advantage(perhaps beyond, but that was before my time). Everything from large stadium, intimidation from fans, managers, players etc all adds up to the big clubs getting more stuff in their favour.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
As I say, it's a better standard because they select the best refs from across the continent. That's not to say that German refs are 'generally better'. I expect if you speak to German mid table supporters they'll say how shite the standard is and how Bayern get all the decisions.

Getting international refs might improve standards because you'd be picking the best like UEFA do but I don't think it will solve big club bias personally. They are biased not because they grew up supporting big clubs but because they know the fall out of giving 50/50s against big clubs is greater. Same as the bias for decisions against home teams.
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Yes I think they will be less acute in worrying about the big club bias. I also would say from watching a lot of football abroad I disagree with you on level of reffing. I think it generally is better particularly in Italy and Spain. Not without its faults… but better.
 
MB1980 said:
I think there's something psychological that goes on when people officiate big clubs... even if just subconscious and not a deliberate bias most of the time.

I think big clubs are aware of the effect they have on officials, that goes back to the Fergie days and use it to their advantage(perhaps beyond, but that was before my time). Everything from large stadium, intimidation from fans, managers, players etc all adds up to the big clubs getting more stuff in their favour.
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I think it’s natural. It’s like anything in life. I do a lot of public speaking and I worry far less making a mistake or having a crap slide in front of 40 people than I do 2000. The magnitude of the mistake grows exponentially. Pre Var who’d want to give a tight penalty call in a World Cup final or championship decider.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I think it’s natural. It’s like anything in life. I do a lot of public speaking and I worry far less making a mistake or having a crap slide in front of 40 people than I do 2000. The magnitude of the mistake grows exponentially. Pre Var who’d want to give a tight penalty call in a World Cup final or championship decider.
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Yeah exactly this. For example, home versus Brentford last season. I'm convinced if a couple of those penalty claims at happened at old Trafford or similar, one of them woukd have been given. 70k founds screaming out, players, manager all over the ref.

Not so much of a threat when a few thousand generally placid afcb fans make a lukewarm plea. Easier to brush it off/under the carpet imo.and the media pundits don't care enough either to make a big thing about it when it happens to smaller clubs, generally.
 
MB1980 said:
I think there's something psychological that goes on when people officiate big clubs... even if just subconscious and not a deliberate bias most of the time.

I think big clubs are aware of the effect they have on officials, that goes back to the Fergie days and use it to their advantage(perhaps beyond, but that was before my time). Everything from large stadium, intimidation from fans, managers, players etc all adds up to the big clubs getting more stuff in their favour.
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I'm sure I've read that 'home advantage' has been analysed and been found to largely be down to the impact on ref's decisions. Not overt bias but, as you say, the psychological effect of knowing that giving a decision against the home team will lead to a much bigger adverse reaction. Hence the 50/50s inevitably go towards the home team. I think the same thing happens with bigger clubs and will happen whether you have English or foreign refs.
 
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