Interesting developments

Neil Dawson

Neil Dawson

UTC Legend
Through this weeks transfer developments I think we are starting to see a step change in formation and strategy by Eddie....

We all argue about what you call it but ostensibly Eddie favours variations of 4-4-2, sometimes with an out and out two, sometimes with a deep lying one. The full backs overlapping two inverted (wrong foot) wingers.

He has pretty much used that (with the odd 5 man midfield exception) since league two days.

It kept us up in the Premier League too but only just and with a fairly universal acceptance that we got found out and teams knew how to counter it and destroy it by our last ten games.

At the very top level where you can't out energise teams you are risking a lot gambling your full backs forward, and also can get overrun in the centre of midfield... Your forwards can become stranded and teams can get behind you and at your centre halfs too easily. Leicester are often quoted as part of the resurgent success of 4-4-2 but they played it less than people thought and only really on the rare occasions Ulloa started a game. They also played very deep and looked to hit teams on the break. Not Eddie's style.

I heard from a very trusted source that Eddie was fuming at the end of last season (despite media calmness) and determined to rip things up... I think we are seeing the pattern of that with Tommy going and potentially Ritchie. My guess is we are seeing a much bigger emphasis on pace in all areas and the arrival of the 4-3-3 (and it's various iterations).The formation that serves most teams so well in the modern game. The full backs will also complement the team and be more defensive - not be the whole attacking threat.

I think Murray, Macdonald and Tomlin will also go.

My guess is the team that will take the field (without new signing knowledge) will be as follows...

Boruc

Smith
Francis
Cook/New Signing.
Daniels

Surman (left of centre)
Ake (Centre defensive mid)
Arter (right of centre)

Gradel
Wilson
King


This leaves the following as it currently stands as Carling Cup team or back up.

Federici

New Signing
Mings
Cook/ New Signing
Wiggins

Hyndeman
Gosling
O'Kane

Pugh/Mousset
Afobe
Grabban/Mousset

So....Looked at that way you can see why he may cash in on Ritchie - who wouldn't have his traditional role... What is very exciting (for me anyway) is that if we do bring in players that further strengthen the first team (Mason, Cook etc) then we are really starting to get a squad to be excited about and not just a team. You can also see a right back and at least one centre half will certainly be arriving.



 
We may see rotation in the full backs if they all stay fit. I think Daniels, especially, needed someone to fill in throughout the season
 
Interesting stuff, Neil, and I can see the sense in a lot of that. Just one question, if the full backs are concentrating more on defence than previously, is Smith going to be strong enough in that department? Don't get me wrong, he was excellent last year, but usually when going forward. Some of the defending and positioning worried me a bit.
 
I think you are right there USCherry....... Eddie has always learned from every setback and he also looks at the continent a lot for inspiration. They will drop squad players in one at a time for certain matches and have a system everyone understands throughout the squad. That is why Ake is a good signing as it covers three positions as opposed to say an Iturbe who was reliant on one player getting injured or dropping form before he could start.
 
Neil Dawson - 29/6/2016 15:53

Through this weeks transfer developments I think we are starting to see a step change in formation and strategy by Eddie....

We all argue about what you call it but ostensibly Eddie favours variations of 4-4-2, sometimes with an out and out two, sometimes with a deep lying one. The full backs overlapping two inverted (wrong foot) wingers.

He has pretty much used that (with the odd 5 man midfield exception) since league two days.

It kept us up in the Premier League too but only just and with a fairly universal acceptance that we got found out and teams knew how to counter it and destroy it by our last ten games.

At the very top level where you can't out energise teams you are risking a lot gambling your full backs forward, and also can get overrun in the centre of midfield... Your forwards can become stranded and teams can get behind you and at your centre halfs too easily. Leicester are often quoted as part of the resurgent success of 4-4-2 but they played it less than people thought and only really on the rare occasions Ulloa started a game. They also played very deep and looked to hit teams on the break. Not Eddie's style.

I heard from a very trusted source that Eddie was fuming at the end of last season (despite media calmness) and determined to rip things up... I think we are seeing the pattern of that with Tommy going and potentially Ritchie. My guess is we are seeing a much bigger emphasis on pace in all areas and the arrival of the 4-3-3 (and it's various iterations).The formation that serves most teams so well in the modern game. The full backs will also complement the team and be more defensive - not be the whole attacking threat.

I think Murray, Macdonald and Tomlin will also go.

My guess is the team that will take the field (without new signing knowledge) will be as follows...

Boruc

Smith
Francis
Cook/New Signing.
Daniels

Surman (left of centre)
Ake (Centre defensive mid)
Arter (right of centre)

Gradel
Wilson
King


This leaves the following as it currently stands as Carling Cup team or back up.

Federici

New Signing
Mings
Cook/ New Signing
Wiggins

Hyndeman
Gosling
O'Kane

Pugh/Mousset
Afobe
Grabban/Mousset

So....Looked at that way you can see why he may cash in on Ritchie - who wouldn't have his traditional role... What is very exciting (for me anyway) is that if we do bring in players that further strengthen the first team (Mason, Cook etc) then we are really starting to get a squad to be excited about and not just a team. You can also see a right back and at least one centre half will certainly be arriving.
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Neil



I'm not sure how to say this......

but I agree :dance:
 
adam0102 - 29/6/2016 16:15

Interesting stuff, Neil, and I can see the sense in a lot of that. Just one question, if the full backs are concentrating more on defence than previously, is Smith going to be strong enough in that department? Don't get me wrong, he was excellent last year, but usually when going forward. Some of the defending and positioning worried me a bit.
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Smith was no worse (and perhaps slightly better) than Francis was at RB last season.
 
The Alchemist - 29/6/2016 16:18

adam0102 - 29/6/2016 16:15

Interesting stuff, Neil, and I can see the sense in a lot of that. Just one question, if the full backs are concentrating more on defence than previously, is Smith going to be strong enough in that department? Don't get me wrong, he was excellent last year, but usually when going forward. Some of the defending and positioning worried me a bit.
Click to expand...

Smith was no worse (and perhaps slightly better) than Francis was at RB last season.
Click to expand...

Would disagree slightly. Perhaps better going forward, albeit they are both different in that regard. Smith makes runs and comes inside, Francis overlaps and whips in crosses.

Franno is definitely better at getting back and making recovering tackles. Some absolute worldys last season.
 
...we will need to adapt much better defensively in the coming season, from front to back. I wonder why Eddie has seen it fit to sell Ritchie who is someone who works back and does the defensive dirty work...?

a solid back four is essential and Ake will give us more options there..I would still hope that a centre back is forthcoming to replace Tommy.

We were often a bit of a soft touch in midfield especially when Arter wasn't playing, so beefing up the midfield is also key...

Pace in attack will be available with King and a fitter Wilson, hopefully supported by Fraser and another fast wing type...

Eddie is right to be disappointed with the performance of some after the Villa game as we fizzled out alarmingly...
 
I am with Alchemist re Smith, I was surprised just how good he was defensively even without a better attacking menace than Franno (who was great in the centre). If we want attacking full backs then something has to give, another central defender or deeper midfield...as Neil above suggests. Ake is a very composed defensive central midfield player who can protect the defence and use the ball intelligently. Similar to Surman but better defensively. It maybe we have to sacrifice Ritchie to get the best of king, gradel and wilson.
 
I'm not sure Eddie will get much say in whether Ritchie stays or goes, ultimately, if it's true Matt is keen, you don't really want to keep a player at that point??

Ake is a top signing for a team like us, works hard, gets stuck in, able to cover several positions. What I am still puzzled by though....how DO you say his name? Is it literally 'ache' or is is 'acky' or 'achey' or what?! How can three letters be said in so many ways?! :)
 
Neil Dawson - 29/6/2016 15:53

Through this weeks transfer developments I think we are starting to see a step change in formation and strategy by Eddie....

We all argue about what you call it but ostensibly Eddie favours variations of 4-4-2, sometimes with an out and out two, sometimes with a deep lying one. The full backs overlapping two inverted (wrong foot) wingers.

He has pretty much used that (with the odd 5 man midfield exception) since league two days.

It kept us up in the Premier League too but only just and with a fairly universal acceptance that we got found out and teams knew how to counter it and destroy it by our last ten games.

At the very top level where you can't out energise teams you are risking a lot gambling your full backs forward, and also can get overrun in the centre of midfield... Your forwards can become stranded and teams can get behind you and at your centre halfs too easily. Leicester are often quoted as part of the resurgent success of 4-4-2 but they played it less than people thought and only really on the rare occasions Ulloa started a game. They also played very deep and looked to hit teams on the break. Not Eddie's style.

I heard from a very trusted source that Eddie was fuming at the end of last season (despite media calmness) and determined to rip things up... I think we are seeing the pattern of that with Tommy going and potentially Ritchie. My guess is we are seeing a much bigger emphasis on pace in all areas and the arrival of the 4-3-3 (and it's various iterations).The formation that serves most teams so well in the modern game. The full backs will also complement the team and be more defensive - not be the whole attacking threat.

I think Murray, Macdonald and Tomlin will also go.

My guess is the team that will take the field (without new signing knowledge) will be as follows...

Boruc

Smith
Francis
Cook/New Signing.
Daniels

Surman (left of centre)
Ake (Centre defensive mid)
Arter (right of centre)

Gradel
Wilson
King


This leaves the following as it currently stands as Carling Cup team or back up.

Federici

New Signing
Mings
Cook/ New Signing
Wiggins

Hyndeman
Gosling
O'Kane

Pugh/Mousset
Afobe
Grabban/Mousset

So....Looked at that way you can see why he may cash in on Ritchie - who wouldn't have his traditional role... What is very exciting (for me anyway) is that if we do bring in players that further strengthen the first team (Mason, Cook etc) then we are really starting to get a squad to be excited about and not just a team. You can also see a right back and at least one centre half will certainly be arriving.
Click to expand...

All of the above appears perfectly plausible and mirrors much of the debate from the "time to ditch one up front?" thread and similar discussions last season.

The final few games of last season with a variant of 4-4-2 made little sense other than to just try to persivere as a deliberate tactic with next season in mind. It can obviously work against the bottom third clubs but against the rest of the division a variant of 4-5-1 has to be the way forward and that needs ball playing midfielders and pace.
 
The Alchemist - 29/6/2016 16:16

Neil Dawson - 29/6/2016 15:53

Through this weeks transfer developments I think we are starting to see a step change in formation and strategy by Eddie....

We all argue about what you call it but ostensibly Eddie favours variations of 4-4-2, sometimes with an out and out two, sometimes with a deep lying one. The full backs overlapping two inverted (wrong foot) wingers.

He has pretty much used that (with the odd 5 man midfield exception) since league two days.

It kept us up in the Premier League too but only just and with a fairly universal acceptance that we got found out and teams knew how to counter it and destroy it by our last ten games.

At the very top level where you can't out energise teams you are risking a lot gambling your full backs forward, and also can get overrun in the centre of midfield... Your forwards can become stranded and teams can get behind you and at your centre halfs too easily. Leicester are often quoted as part of the resurgent success of 4-4-2 but they played it less than people thought and only really on the rare occasions Ulloa started a game. They also played very deep and looked to hit teams on the break. Not Eddie's style.

I heard from a very trusted source that Eddie was fuming at the end of last season (despite media calmness) and determined to rip things up... I think we are seeing the pattern of that with Tommy going and potentially Ritchie. My guess is we are seeing a much bigger emphasis on pace in all areas and the arrival of the 4-3-3 (and it's various iterations).The formation that serves most teams so well in the modern game. The full backs will also complement the team and be more defensive - not be the whole attacking threat.

I think Murray, Macdonald and Tomlin will also go.

My guess is the team that will take the field (without new signing knowledge) will be as follows...

Boruc

Smith
Francis
Cook/New Signing.
Daniels

Surman (left of centre)
Ake (Centre defensive mid)
Arter (right of centre)

Gradel
Wilson
King


This leaves the following as it currently stands as Carling Cup team or back up.

Federici

New Signing
Mings
Cook/ New Signing
Wiggins

Hyndeman
Gosling
O'Kane

Pugh/Mousset
Afobe
Grabban/Mousset

So....Looked at that way you can see why he may cash in on Ritchie - who wouldn't have his traditional role... What is very exciting (for me anyway) is that if we do bring in players that further strengthen the first team (Mason, Cook etc) then we are really starting to get a squad to be excited about and not just a team. You can also see a right back and at least one centre half will certainly be arriving.
Click to expand...

Neil



I'm not sure how to say this......

but I agree :dance:
Click to expand...

Don't forget the wee man used in place of Ritchie.
 
Amazing that Eddies signings always come from nowhere. Very interesting, and I'm already looking forward to the new season.

Can't make Chicago, but ready for Fratton!
 
I would absolutely bet that with EH in charge, we have got more points with 4-5-1 than 4-4-2. The entirety of League 2 was 4-5-1 pretty much and most of last seasons points came from 4-5-1. Other than the Championship after Yann signed, it's almost always been 4-5-1.

This board was in the past chocker full of posts asking why we don't play 4-4-2!
 
RobTrent - 29/6/2016 19:51

Amazing that Eddies signings always come from nowhere. Very interesting, and I'm already looking forward to the new season.

Can't make Chicago, but ready for Fratton!
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So Chelsea counts as nowhere does it? :eyes:
 
cockbeard - 29/6/2016 20:46

It's just a poo posh Wandsworth
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LOL...and Wandsworth has its own prison - in yer face, Chelsea!

All this talk of new players, attacking formations, positive play...me juices are starting to flow again.

 
boscombe botn - 29/6/2016 22:34

RobTrent - 29/6/2016 19:51

Amazing that Eddies signings always come from nowhere. Very interesting, and I'm already looking forward to the new season.

Can't make Chicago, but ready for Fratton!
Click to expand...


So Chelsea counts as nowhere does it? :eyes:
Click to expand...

I read it as there were no rumours and then, bang, Ake signs - not the club he was from. Maybe I read it wrong though.
 
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