Is this the future?

stanthevan

stanthevan

UTC Legend
After heightened security at Wimbledon causes long queues will all sporting venues including Premier League grounds suffer the same fate. Could this be Just Stop Oil's long game?
 
Are these Just Stop Oil people doing their stuff in the Oil producing Nations.. or in the USA...the major users of Oil ?
And this Government are the last people on Earth other than USA Republicans to take action to stop Oil usage !
 
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Just stop oil's campaign has to be the most counter productive in history, far from getting people behind their cause it's simply led to most of the population disliking the protesters. All that time and effort to achieve less than nothing.
 
yanh_ said:
Just stop oil's campaign has to be the most counter productive in history, far from getting people behind their cause it's simply led to most of the population disliking the protesters. All that time and effort to achieve less than nothing.
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Far from counter productive. They don't want to be liked. In their minds they have already achieved something and that is publicity and keeping the discourse going. They will point to other unpopular groups in history who ultimately brought about societal change.

If you're wondering why they don't just protest peacefully, they do that too. It just doesn't get the same impactful publicity.
 
Red Sky said:
Far from counter productive. They don't want to be liked. In their minds they have already achieved something and that is publicity and keeping the discourse going. They will point to other unpopular groups in history who ultimately brought about societal change.

If you're wondering why they don't just protest peacefully, they do that too. It just doesn't get the same impactful publicity.
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Is there any evidence that their protests have changed public views? Unpopular protests might be seen as effective by them but so far all they seem to have achieved is increased support for stringent anti protest laws.

I get the point about disruptive protest getting publicity but there is a balance where if it gets too disruptive all you do is piss people off and it doesn't matter how legitimate your cause is they simply stop listening to you. How many football fans do you think will be interested in Just Oil's cause if they disrupted a match at Dean Court? Vast majority would simply be annoyed and just want them off the pitch asap.

They also might have a bit more public sympathy if they also targeted the super rich private jet and super yacht travelling elite rather than simply ordinary members of the public.
 
yanh_ said:
Is there any evidence that their protests have changed public views? Unpopular protests might be seen as effective by them but so far all they seem to have achieved is increased support for stringent anti protest laws.

I get the point about disruptive protest getting publicity but there is a balance where if it gets too disruptive all you do is piss people off and it doesn't matter how legitimate your cause is they simply stop listening to you. How many football fans do you think will be interested in Just Oil's cause if they disrupted a match at Dean Court? Vast majority would simply be annoyed and just want them off the pitch asap.

They also might have a bit more public sympathy if they also targeted the super rich private jet and super yacht travelling elite rather than simply ordinary members of the public.
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The point is that they want people to dislike their protests. They want people to complain and get the government to somehow put a stop to it. The more people get pissed off, the more the government are forced to take action. They either have to take the Braverman approach of introducing draconian laws or they have to take action to stop the use of fossil fuels. The former would affect us all. You may be denied the right to protest if Shell want to demolish your neighbourhood to build an oil refinery.
 
stanthevan said:
The point is that they want people to dislike their protests. They want people to complain and get the government to somehow put a stop to it. The more people get pissed off, the more the government are forced to take action. They either have to take the Braverman approach of introducing draconian laws or they have to take action to stop the use of fossil fuels. The former would affect us all. You may be denied the right to protest if Shell want to demolish your neighbourhood to build an oil refinery.
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I get that but the government aren't going to cave into them so what will happen is more and more draconian laws being introduced to try and curb the protests. As you quite rightly pointed out this will result in all of us losing some of our democratic right to protest so really just stop oil's legacy will be is that they will have made it harder to protest going forward.
 
stanthevan said:
The point is that they want people to dislike their protests. They want people to complain and get the government to somehow put a stop to it. The more people get pissed off, the more the government are forced to take action. They either have to take the Braverman approach of introducing draconian laws or they have to take action to stop the use of fossil fuels. The former would affect us all. You may be denied the right to protest if Shell want to demolish your neighbourhood to build an oil refinery.
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A rather large hole in this logic is it assumes the general public have any confidence in them stopping protest regardless of central government policy.

When the same people also protest against large green energy projects (such as you and I have discussed before) it gives this no credibility.
 
yanh_ said:
Is there any evidence that their protests have changed public views? Unpopular protests might be seen as effective by them but so far all they seem to have achieved is increased support for stringent anti protest laws.

I get the point about disruptive protest getting publicity but there is a balance where if it gets too disruptive all you do is piss people off and it doesn't matter how legitimate your cause is they simply stop listening to you. How many football fans do you think will be interested in Just Oil's cause if they disrupted a match at Dean Court? Vast majority would simply be annoyed and just want them off the pitch asap.

They also might have a bit more public sympathy if they also targeted the super rich private jet and super yacht travelling elite rather than simply ordinary members of the public.
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In the video above they're literally spraying the building of one of the super rich energy giants in canary wharf. They get no sympathy regardless. If they were just protesting silently they would be ignored.

The point is that the environmental damage from these industries affects us all, so we should all care.

Not sure why people are still struggling to get it tbh.
 
yanh_ said:
I get that but the government aren't going to cave into them so what will happen is more and more draconian laws being introduced to try and curb the protests. As you quite rightly pointed out this will result in all of us losing some of our democratic right to protest so really just stop oil's legacy will be is that they will have made it harder to protest going forward.
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Their legacy will be to show this Tory government for what it is, i.e. greenwashing and ultimately putting profit before human rights. People aren't going to stand by and elect a party who are eroding their basic rights. The tide is turning.
 
stanthevan said:
After heightened security at Wimbledon causes long queues will all sporting venues including Premier League grounds suffer the same fate. Could this be Just Stop Oil's long game?
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Perhaps the delays were because they hired AFCB as consultants.
 
Red Sky said:
Their legacy will be to show this Tory government for what it is, i.e. greenwashing and ultimately putting profit before human rights. People aren't going to stand by and elect a party who are eroding their basic rights. The tide is turning.
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I don't agree with the curbs but was simply pointing out that these are an inevitable result of the relentless nature of just stop oil's protests.

Are you expecting that Labour will repeal these measures if elected?
 
Perhaps I’m naive to this but when do these types of protests/strikes ever achieve the main goal? Eventually any public support always dwindles over time even if the majority support their plight.

I don’t see much support left for the train and school strikes, once again taking place this week. It barely makes the news now despite the widespread disruption. I don’t see how that’s putting overwhelming pressure on the govt to cave to their demands.

Stop Oil, personally I agree with them in principle but fail to see how they are achieving anything.
 
yanh_ said:
I don't agree with the curbs but was simply pointing out that these are an inevitable result of the relentless nature of just stop oil's protests.

Are you expecting that Labour will repeal these measures if elected?
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I think Labour will be greener than the Tories but that’s not really difficult to achieve. I also believe that they won’t change any draconian laws. Governments hate protests and strikes, whatever the colour of their rosette and keeping the people quiet is always a major goal.
 
yanh_ said:
I don't agree with the curbs but was simply pointing out that these are an inevitable result of the relentless nature of just stop oil's protests.

Are you expecting that Labour will repeal these measures if elected?
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Not under Starmer no. They are 2 sides of the same coin. That is also being reflected in the polls at the moment though.
 
Highest average June temperature ever recorded in this country
Wild fires across the globe
Sea levels rising
Mass extinction of species
The world falling to pieces
Evidence of climate breakdown wherever you look
and some people are worried that they might get slightly delayed getting to the supermarket or their favourite sporting event might be partially disrupted.

The mind fücking boggles.
 
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