Jefferson Lerma

The one thing the Arsenal game taught us is that Surman and Gosling cannot play together in a midfield... They simply don’t have the legs. It needs to be one or the other with Billing and Cook...
 
Basically more discussion from pundits whose closest view of our games is MOTD or the review in the Sun.

Talk of "if you keep going down to ten men because of this", regardless of the minimal number of sendings off he's had

No mention of the fact that Grealish just ran into him for the second yellow

Standard TS fare, unfortunately
 
...to be honest they should have had Anthony Taylor on and be asking him why he let off other more blatant tackles go without a yellow card and yet booked Jeff for being knocked off his feet by Grealish who fell down as he did it! The more I have looked at it the more I am incensed that it even given as a foul against Jeff...what chance has he got if Referees are so pre-disposed to book him in most games?
 
Garbo said:
...to be honest they should have had Anthony Taylor on and be asking him why he let off other more blatant tackles go without a yellow card and yet booked Jeff for being knocked off his feet by Grealish who fell down as he did it! The more I have looked at it the more I am incensed that it even given as a foul against Jeff...what chance has he got if Referees are so pre-disposed to book him in most games?
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Can't understand why refs aren't allowed to be asked by pundits or journos to explain some of their decisions,are they only held accountable by their mates?
 
Garbo said:
...to be honest they should have had Anthony Taylor on and be asking him why he let off other more blatant tackles go without a yellow card and yet booked Jeff for being knocked off his feet by Grealish who fell down as he did it! The more I have looked at it the more I am incensed that it even given as a foul against Jeff...what chance has he got if Referees are so pre-disposed to book him in most games?
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Taylor and his acolytes skidaddled out of the press entrance after the game.
 
Saw Ref Watch this morning, they did ask if Jeff putting his left arm out was enough for a yellow card. Dermot Gallagher said it wasn't and shouldn't have been a yellow. Stephen Warnock and Sue Smith both agreed, Warnock even saying, as a defender, he thought it was good defending!

I don't listen to TalkSport 1 in the daytime as its all shock jocks looking for a reaction.
 
Garbo said:
...to be honest they should have had Anthony Taylor on and be asking him why he let off other more blatant tackles go without a yellow card and yet booked Jeff for being knocked off his feet by Grealish who fell down as he did it! The more I have looked at it the more I am incensed that it even given as a foul against Jeff...what chance has he got if Referees are so pre-disposed to book him in most games?
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Don’t think Jeff gets a fair deal - refs expecting to book him. Think the club needs to make a complaint.
 
In fairness, the discussion was more about Lerma's yellow card count and how we deal with him, his continual bans and the dilemma of whether you take the bans and keep the player and his key attributes, as after all, that is why we bought him, or do you try and tame him at the risk of losing the hustle and fight that Lerma is so good at...

Danny Mills used Jordan Henderson as an example saying that he represented the same work ethic as a Lerma-type player, but is a smarter tackler and knows what he can and can't win... as opposed to just edging on the side of fouling more often than not...

Both Morrison and Mills both said that the second yellow was harsh and not a yellow card...

I do, however, think the one thing that went against Lerma was the fact that he slightly outstretched his arm, which could have looked more like an obstruction than it actually was.

I must admit that when I saw it live from the NS, I saw it as being a cynical foul... Only after, having seen it several times again, do I think that Lerma had nowhere to go... The arm really didn't help though...
 
Lerma is a liability Watch the home game video against Brighton. Seaweed got in 21 shots partly because it was very noticeable that Lerma just stood off the Brighton players as they shot. And why? Because he was to afraid to tackle them, because he can't tackle and would probably get another booking if he tried to. What is the point of a defensive midfield player who can't tackle properly, and in the worst circumstances lets the team down because he is too afraid to tackle players who are going to shoot, for fear of a booking. Just as well Rambo had a great game that day and won man of the match, which really says it all when we 3-1 you would eXpect a forward to get MOM.

Wasn't it in the Wet Spam away game, one of the Hammers got sent off and was reprieved by VAR. Why wasn't VAR used in this instance., when a second yellow card = sending off.

On Saturday if he hadn't got sent off it would have been a disaster anyway as he wouldn't tackle.

And all this nonsense about refs targetting Lerma. Childish conspiracy theory not backed by any evidence.
 
The Flying Picket said:
Lerma is a liability Watch the home game video against Brighton. Seaweed got in 21 shots partly because it was very noticeable that Lerma just stood off the Brighton players as they shot. And why? Because he was to afraid to tackle them, because he can't tackle and would probably get another booking if he tried to. What is the point of a defensive midfield player who can't tackle properly, and in the worst circumstances lets the team down because he is too afraid to tackle players who are going to shoot, for fear of a booking. Just as well Rambo had a great game that day and won man of the match, which really says it all when we 3-1 you would eXpect a forward to get MOM.

Wasn't it in the Wet Spam away game, one of the Hammers got sent off and was reprieved by VAR. Why wasn't VAR used in this instance., when a second yellow card = sending off.

On Saturday if he hadn't got sent off it would have been a disaster anyway as he wouldn't tackle.

And all this nonsense about refs targetting Lerma. Childish conspiracy theory not backed by any evidence.
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Hmmmm... interesting understanding this... Lerma was on a yellow for some time, yet still managed to be 'very good' before his second yellow card... He has learnt to reduce his game slightly if on a yellow... Evidenced by the lack of reds he has to his name, with so many yellows...!!!

The Red card that was down graded was a straight Red I think, so down graded to a yellow... I am not sure VAR gets involved in yellow card decisions...

The one thing I agree on is that I dont think Lerma is targeted by refs... Taylor was just dosh*t on Saturday... If Lerma is going to rack up so many cards, because of persistent fouling, refs are naturally going to keep an eye on him, same as if you never get yellows, you'll largely go unnoticed...

Greilish also has to take some credit in Lerma'a sending off... He did a number on winding him up on Saturday and thrust Lerma right at the front of Taylor's thoughts...
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
do, however, think the one thing that went against Lerma was the fact that he slightly outstretched his arm, which could have looked more like an obstruction than it actually was.

I must admit that when I saw it live from the NS, I saw it as being a cynical foul... Only after, having seen it several times again, do I think that Lerma had nowhere to go... The arm really didn't help though...
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If you watch it again you see Grealish is already diving forward when Jeff puts his arm out. It a natural reaction that anyone would do if someone is falling into you. Of course it’s not always obvious to see in real time but this is why it’s so important refs don’t get affected by their subconscious bias.
 
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