Match Report and MOM v Brighton....

Worse than the Watford game? That's the worst we have been st home, this game was frustrating in the final third against a team who just sat back and defended. We lacked the quality to unlock them until Ibe came on.
 
The pace, the flair, the magic has gone missing and we're left scratching our heads wondering why. Hughton knew why, he simply blocked the channels as is the norm, parked the bus and unlocked us with a set piece. A kind of very poor West Brom.

The root cause as pointed out by others is the midfield. Devoid of ideas, vision, pace and the killer pass so its sideways, backwards nervous tippy tappy stuff that always surfaces when we have a bad run.

Oh hang on we won ..silly me. The answer was on the bench.

The result was more important than the performance and we need to take the positives from it. The positives were Ibe who is visibly growing in confidence every game. £15 million buys you someone who can split defences and at last its starting to happen. Surman ran the show, so credit where its due, easily MOM. Ake seemed far more disciplined than at Arsenal for example. Daniels yet again with a great performance yet seemingly under the radar.

Why didnt Eddie stick Afobe behind King when he came on, why wasn't Lewis Cook introduced and when does Franno retire ?

I' won't dwell on the negatives as they've been mentioned by a few on here, Arter did however start to sort himself out for the last 15 minutes despite having probably his worst run for many a year.

Interesting that Eddie keeps mentioning the fans and in particular when we went 1 down. It really was a strange, nervous subdued atmosphere not helped by that repetitive drumming that seemed to suck the life out of the North Stand.

 
Two people on this thread have said Brighton scored from a set piece. Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me but I'm sure it was a well worked counter attack from open play?
 
fritter - 16/9/2017 09:25

The first 60 minutes for me were the worst I have seen us in this division. But I was delighted to see us play poorly and win. Not sure what Smith was doing for the goal though. No challenge at all.
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It wasn't that bad fritter.

It was just dull and predictable.

Easy to defend when you know that every attack will have the same build up.

It cried out for the odd random ball over the top for Defoe to chase.

He probably wouldn't have scored, but it would at least have given Brighton something else to think about.

Apart from the cameo from Ibe, we've lost the ability to surprise defences this season.


 
Ken Baileys Ghost - 16/9/2017 11:16

fritter - 16/9/2017 09:25

The first 60 minutes for me were the worst I have seen us in this division. But I was delighted to see us play poorly and win. Not sure what Smith was doing for the goal though. No challenge at all.
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It wasn't that bad fritter.

It was just dull and predictable.

Easy to defend when you know that every attack will have the same build up.

It cried out for the odd random ball over the top for Defoe to chase.

He probably wouldn't have scored, but it would at least have given Brighton something else to think about.

Apart from the cameo from Ibe, we've lost the ability to surprise defences this season.
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Agree, it wasn't the worst we've been. We just lacked confidence to pick up the tempo and without a Stanislas or a Wilshere we missed balls in between the lines which as said made us predictable and easier to defend against.

Not sure we could have played many balls over the top as Brighton were playing very deep. We could have countered at corners quicker with Defoe looking but Begovic didn't see it.
 
A bit puzzled and sad to see those who are being over negative about the display. It really was not the worst we have played in this division! Nowhere near that bad. Even in the first half, it was very frustrating in certain areas and not exciting but there wasn't a ton wrong with it. The main issue was that Fraser and Pugh were both so terribly poor! We had some good build up play but the final ball from mainly these two was horrific. Maybe they should watch what their chap Gross did for their goal, beat the full back and pop a good ball on the forwards head! In that first half, our defence were very rarely touched, so we must have been much more solid as a unit.

Harry is so far away from good form it's frightening. I think most of us love him as a player but he isn't doing the stuff he used to and I believe that is why Surman suffers too. Harry has become a defensive midfield player, where we need him back to being a link between midfield and the strikers. I can't remember the last time he popped in a great shot at goal either.

For me, Brighton have some good players but their game plan was purely to frustrate us and hope for one good attack. Yeah, maybe you can say it nearly worked but lets be honest, we didn't play at our best yet still were the better team overall. I would worry if I was a fan of theirs. Apart from that ten minute patch they had, they didn't worry me at all. And that is with a defence where Franno individually was horrible!

For a team like ours, under huge pressure to win the game, we have to give enormous credit to them all for winning after going behind. That cannot be understated. Even those out of form, ended up grafting hard to see us through. Papering cracks? Possibly. But hard to say still after the start we've had.

I would say though - Eddie is starting to look a bit too pig headed about Lewis Cook! If those playing were on fire, no issues but when Harry is this far out of form in all five games so far, it is truly head scratching as to how Lewis hasn't been on the pitch yet. I actually think he could play alongside Surman, having seen him for the U-20 + U-21's, he is capable of getting more forward and linking play and I think he could be the man to get those passes into the feet of King and Defoe too.

Finally - both for Jordan and Surman - great to see skill from both to create and score those goals. I saw on Twitter that one fan refused to celebrate the Surman goal, as he had been slating him all game! If I was the club, I would seriously not let that 'supporter' ever buy a ticket again!
 
I would leave it until January then I would put in a transfer request if I we're Lewis Cook, I bet when he signed for us he didn't expect this after we've been so bad in midfield. I don't think he's got anything to prove, he's wasting his time with us.
 
I've given Surman plenty of stick in my time (although he's playing very well at the moment!) but I didn't know whether to laugh or what, when I watch him flick the ball inside the defender and then curl it cool as you like into the bottom corner. Like he's a superstar striker who's been doing that all his career! Brilliant.

I just don't know what more to say regarding Lewis Cook. It's getting beyond silly now. DJ said it himself, balls in between the lines, that's exactly what he does and it's what we need. Arter has really lost his mojo. Let's take him out of the firing line for a few games.

Franno and Ake looked a little more comfortable together as a unit than S.Cook and Ake I thought - BUT Franno still made several errors (similar to Cook). That will be an ongoing conundrum for Howe. For me we probably stick with Franno and Ake for now.

Daniels and Smith both defended terribly for the Brighton goal. Gross didn't have to do anything special to get that cross in past Charlie, and March rose largely unchallenged when Smith was right there and didn't even jump.

Do we start Ibe or use him as an impact sub? Tough choice. Pugh and Fraser aren't having the best of form at the moment.

Plenty for us to think on, we've got a win and some points on the board but we cannot let it paper over cracks.
 
thefiendofkingspark - 16/9/2017 11:07

Tinpot Club - 16/9/2017 11:02

Two people on this thread have said Brighton scored from a set piece. Perhaps my mind is playing tricks on me but I'm sure it was a well worked counter attack from open play?
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It was.
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Correct it was open play. Daniels was far to slow to close the guy down and let him get a cross in. Sloppy defending from him in this instance, otherwise he had a decent game.
 
davygravy - 16/9/2017 11:25

A bit puzzled and sad to see those who are being over negative about the display. It really was not the worst we have played in this division! Nowhere near that bad. Even in the first half, it was very frustrating in certain areas and not exciting but there wasn't a ton wrong with it. The main issue was that Fraser and Pugh were both so terribly poor! We had some good build up play but the final ball from mainly these two was horrific. Maybe they should watch what their chap Gross did for their goal, beat the full back and pop a good ball on the forwards head! In that first half, our defence were very rarely touched, so we must have been much more solid as a unit.

Harry is so far away from good form it's frightening. I think most of us love him as a player but he isn't doing the stuff he used to and I believe that is why Surman suffers too. Harry has become a defensive midfield player, where we need him back to being a link between midfield and the strikers. I can't remember the last time he popped in a great shot at goal either.

For me, Brighton have some good players but their game plan was purely to frustrate us and hope for one good attack. Yeah, maybe you can say it nearly worked but lets be honest, we didn't play at our best yet still were the better team overall. I would worry if I was a fan of theirs. Apart from that ten minute patch they had, they didn't worry me at all. And that is with a defence where Franno individually was horrible!

For a team like ours, under huge pressure to win the game, we have to give enormous credit to them all for winning after going behind. That cannot be understated. Even those out of form, ended up grafting hard to see us through. Papering cracks? Possibly. But hard to say still after the start we've had.

I would say though - Eddie is starting to look a bit too pig headed about Lewis Cook! If those playing were on fire, no issues but when Harry is this far out of form in all five games so far, it is truly head scratching as to how Lewis hasn't been on the pitch yet. I actually think he could play alongside Surman, having seen him for the U-20 + U-21's, he is capable of getting more forward and linking play and I think he could be the man to get those passes into the feet of King and Defoe too.

Finally - both for Jordan and Surman - great to see skill from both to create and score those goals. I saw on Twitter that one fan refused to celebrate the Surman goal, as he had been slating him all game! If I was the club, I would seriously not let that 'supporter' ever buy a ticket again!
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:110:
 
Think Neville and Carragher hit the nail on the head with identifying our issues.

We're fine and work the ball out wide really well but there was a total lack of movement from either King or Defoe to come towards the ball and to get to the edges of the box or near post for the ball to be fed into them with any kind of purpose.

Pugh and Daniels did link well at times. However that shouldn't detract from the fact that Pugh was slow and ponderous on the ball and seemed to lack the ability or confidence to either beat his man or make the key pass.

Fraser seems to have lost his confidence to run at players and is looking to pass the ball on (without any real purpose) rather than try something himself.

Neither were helped oput by the strikers as already mentioned though.

Arter really has regressed massively from the player we had at times early last season. Not sure if he is trying to tone down his aggression but he is not closing down as fast as he used to, making monumental cock ups with simple passes on a match by match basis and is not seemingly even looking to make the clinical forward pass. Mentally he doesn't really look up for the fight.

Daniels defending for the cross that led to the goal was appalling. There as no way that cross should even have been allowed. Smith wasn't strong enough but Franno got caught under the ball too and if he had been able to adjust his body and back peddle a little, the cross would never have reached their man.

Best all round game I think I have seen from Surman - ran the midfield, a lot of good passes (most for them forward looking and incisive) and a cracking cool finish for the goal.

The King and Defoe partnership is not working yet at all. Think they are both looking to fill the same paces. King look low on confidence and does not look the strong physical striker who would be able to hold off his man and get at defences as he did last season - really needs a goal. Afobe looks more of a threat right now.

Ibe was terrific and everything that we have lacked this season - looking to get on the ball, looking to take on his man and run at his defender, linked play well and was unlucky not to get on the core sheet with the blocked shot and the free kick.

Overall, I didn't really see the passion and never say die attitude until we went a goal down. We weren't strong in the challenge and still get pushed off the ball too much and too easily (that has been the case for years though).

Overall though, we won and that is what mattered. Hopefully that will breed a little bit of confidence and some of the players will use that to actually take a chance and make that crucial pass, take that shot or make that run.
 
Surman has always been a good finisher....it's just that he is never that far forwards. I remember all his championship goals as the same goal, curlers from the edge of the box into the top corner, unerring. My son, who watches all the dvds tells me that was because they were all the same goal just against different teams!

You see a different game on tv. Watched second half when I got back and Daniels was done too easy for goal and didn't realise how much time and thought Ibe gave to the Defoe pass.
 
I can watch the Defoe goal on constant repeat - a brilliantly simple goal. Great pass but still needed Defoe's instinct to let it run then SMASH. The other goal was equally brilliant.

I said before the game that Ibe has been our best winger so far this season and has been unlucky not to already have one or two assists. If it wasn't for two great finishes he'd still be getting slated too by some.

That said I think he'll always be a bit of a hit and miss player - trying things that don't come off. As long as he keeps making key contributions then giving the ball away in the final third is not a problem. We need players to take risks to try and open teams up and Jordon has clearly got the ability to do just that. We also need Stan back firing on all cylinders.

 
Pretty much any 'winger' in the world will lose the ball sometimes. It's part of what they do. If we want someone like Ibe to run at players, to try something different to unlock a defence, we ALL need to accept it won't work 100% of the time. I'm sure even Stanley Matthews gave the ball away occasionally! If they keep things safe, then the opposition don't have anything to worry about.
 
Did like the quality of brighton's crosses compared to ours. Pugh and Fraser should take note. Without gradel we are a bit light on the left
 
AFCBade - 16/9/2017 15:11

Did like the quality of brighton's crosses compared to ours. Pugh and Fraser should take note. Without gradel we are a bit light on the left
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Mahoney should come into that position given some time.
 
I do think that reading some these comments we've been spoilt by how good our play has been over the last 4 seasons. Many supporters of other teams would not be as critical and take the 3 points. The expectancy at our club now is so high the team have to play like Messi every week!

The approach play was fine, it's the final ball that is almost non-existent now. I lost count of how many times Pugh, Fraser and Smith had an opportunity to cross the ball but didn't and then either checked back inside or passed back or lost the ball. Thank goodness Ibe was told by Eddie to go direct. Which begs the question why didn't everyone else before that?

That said, we won't play a poorer team than Brighton this season, in the first half they only got out of their half once. Half the teams in the division will annihilate them if they set up like that away from home. Nothing upfront either. Fair play to them they did come out for 10 minutes in the second half and with luck could have been 2-0 up.

Begovic and Ake have brought a more calming influence on the defence, EH just needs to sort out getting Cooky back on his right foot.

I'm with bog_standard on Lewis Cook. I'd be off in January if I were him. He'll play Tuesday and then we won't see him until the next cup game. Shameful when you've got Harry Arter close to the form that we sent him on loan to Carlisle for.
 
Good report. Surprised we didn't double up for the cross that led to their goal. Watched the game on tv, and Neville (I think) suggested that if we did win it would be scrappy. He was right.
 
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