NON - Dispute with 02

davidwhitehead

davidwhitehead

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Just wondering, anyone out there that could help ?

Been involved in a long-running dispute with 02 re an old phone contract for my son that was closed down several years ago, but despite the contract being cancelled, they continued to bill my son over a long period. He failed to notice this ....

However, 02 claim that they sent me (as the account holder) invoices every month, so I was negligent in not noticing and acting on these.

Needless to say, i never received any invoices from 02, so requested that they provide evidence of these, which they have failed to do. They claim that they cannot retrieve these invoices, owing to something called their "CRS" system.

I have no idea what this is ? Is it credible that a major company cannot produce evidence of e mails sent ? Does anyone have any relevant experience that they could share with me ?
 
I would suggest it isn't credible at all, as if it went to court, they would have to provide evidence of the unpaid invoices... So why cant they provide them to you...?

Just tell them unless they can provide you evidence of what they claim you owe, they can stick it... and possibly even if they can provide it... They can stick it as well...

Have they told you the amount... Is it negligible or a hefty chunk?
 
David - sometimes its best, as I have been advised, to close contracts by registered letter( with receipt which can be shown to a court)so they can't ultimately claim that its not closed down fully in the first place. Your type of problem is widespread, especially their 'system' or e-mail rubbish and it varies from person to person, and different providers. Steve's advice is good to go with but be aware that some of these companies are very resistant and pass it over to debt collectors.
 
I’ve had many issues with o2, mainly orders of new iPhones, signal issues and unfortunately find them very hard to get any kind of answer or apology out of them, good luck to you though.
 
Thanks for the responses chaps.

Long story, but what happened was this : last year my son noticed he had been double charged for a long period, and went to 02 to demand they stop doing this and ask for a refund re the incorrect DDs that had been collected.

They offered only a small %, so my son went to his bank, and received a full refund via their Direct Debit Protection scheme- over £1500.

The first I knew of this matter was when I received, out of the blue, an invoice for over £1500, i.e. the amount my son had just been refunded.

I contacted 02, explained the error, and they said the matter was closed.

Several months later, without any further contact from 02, I received an aggressive letter from a debt recovery agency.

Endless phone calls and e mails followed, but 02's position was, that as they had sent me e mail invoices every month, I should have noticed this, and was thus negligent. I am 100% adamant that no such e mails were ever sent to me, and so demanded credible proof that they were. Needless to say, they are unable to provide evidence of historical e mails......

I've since escalated this to the Financial Ombudsman, who have supported 02's stance, i.e. that it was my fault that I did not react to the e mailed invoices that were supposedly sent to me.

Seems a bizarre position to take : if a company incorrectly takes money from an account, they will hold YOU liable for not noticing and reacting quickly enough. Seems to set a very dangerous precedent.
 
From a technical perspective this is entirely possible that they don't have a copy of the exact email they send, it all depends on the data they keep, backups, journaling of emails and how the application which sends the emails gets these relayed through the email system - or even if it uses their system and not a third party.
I would, however, be incredibly surprised that they don't have a record of having sent the email, (Date, send to address etc) even if they don't have a copy of the email. I would have thought by law they would need this. Once again though, depending on the logging of the application and records kept, it could be a terrible application that doesn't record this.
We're going through a financial audit for the company I work for over here and the IT controls are so tight you wouldn't believe.
 
There’s always the Ombudsman Services option who deal with complaints in comms industry,. Oftel now Ofcom don’t deal with individual cases I believe,just general standards in industry.
I’d certainly be asking their advice with a quick phone call. Also don’t overlook Citizens Advice that gives free advice.

However, you need to put all your complaints in writing to O2 and tell them what outcome you want. This is general procecedure,then give them the time line in order to investigate before you seek further advice legal or otherwise. Ensure this is sent to the responsible person or dept at O2. Ask them who you need to address your complaint to.
Send recorded so there’s no discrepancy regarding them not receiving. When you get reply either good so end of or if they still pursue you for non payment accrued you can now go through due process of using Ombudsman and the fact you have addressed your complaint in writing carries more weight and helps to support the process in trying to reach a satisfactory outcome.
Good luck but ask CA and Ombudsman as they have experience.

Good luck
 
Do you have any record of O2 telling you the "matter was closed", or was it done by phone?

I guess this is likely to end in court, however only O2 or their soilicitors can do this, not the debt collection agency.
 
Good luck with all this David.

These bloody corporate companies probably assume that the man in the street wouldn’t escalate a challenge against them, and then if you did, they’d just try and swat you away with gobbledygook.

I’m currently engaged in ‘exchanges’ with the UK Football Association, who are acting in a very similar way to the experience that you are having with O2.

 
I would get in touch with the ombudsman as mentioned above.

A few years back,I was sold a mobile phone insurance with a phone contract from Carphone Warehouse.

When the contract ended,unknown to me,I was still paying the insurance which was now for a phone I didn't have.

As I have so many debits going in and out I just didn't notice until I was doing a bit of an audit on my bank account.

I contacted the company asking for a refund and they refused,saying it was down to me to cancel the policy.

I argued that they should have sent me a renewal after the phone contract ended,which they didn't.

They were having none of it,so I got onto the financial ombudsman,telling them the full story.

Lo and behold,a few weeks later I was refunded in full plus interest.

 
David, if you apply to them under section 57/58 of the Consumer Credit Act, enclosing a £1 open postal order, they have to produce copy of your original agreement plus all the other evidence you need. Go on to Legal Beagles, sign up and put your problem in and they will sort. Any further probs give me a shout
 
David, this is what I would do, but of course I am not you, nor you me.

I would send a “without prejudice” letter (by both email and post) to O2 and advise that, in the absence of empirical evidence, I refute any negligence on my part stating furthermore that the alleged debt is not recognised. I would also advise that I would robustly defend any action pursuant to this allegation. I would also state that as a consequence of the above I would not be entering into any further communication with them in relation to the matter.

Should I then receive a letter from a debt collection company I would send them a copy of the letter sent to O2 and would advise them that I would not be entering into any further communication with them. Should they threaten court proceedings I would merely reiterate the robust stance above.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you luck with this.




 
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