Non - 'Mental Health culture gone too far...'

MB1980 said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Mental health culture has gone too far, says Mel Stride

Work and Pensions Secretary unveils plan to get 150,000 people back into a job as benefits bill rises
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Obviously mental health issues have/can have awful impact on many peoples lives.

But he perhaps has fair points in amongst it?
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A lot of this I can agree with.

We've gone from mental health being the condition that dare not speak it's name to it being worn as some kind of badge of honour that everyone must have on their life's CV
 
Their own graph shows that the largest percentage increase in welfare since the 90s has come from those in work. They should be asking the question why so many people in work are now reliant on benefits?

They also lump in 'inactivity' with parenthood. Could it be that many simply cannot afford to pay childcare costs if they return to work?

In the picture below I'm not sure why you would choose to focus on people off work with Mental Health issues. Although if you had better NHS resources you could assess those people more accurately.

I do agree we should enable people with social anxiety to be able work from home. Although I don't believe this is something new that has never been suggested or tried other than for lack of funding.

The continuing narrative that the country's economic problems stem from lazy, particularly young people who would rather live.on benefits than work is just absolute nonsense.

Screenshot_20240321_100802_Brave.jpg
 
Only each of us knows in innards of our own mind, and even then there's limits. But for me positive mental health is derived from having purpose, from accomplishing tasks (even tiny), and from routine. And part of that comes from my job, also non work commitments and interests, also some exercise. When I least feel like doing something is actually when I need to do it the most.

A symptom of poor mental health is the inability to get up and out, to see the world and do things. Which paradoxically is part of the fix to the situation. You can talk or worry about something until the cows come home but sometimes you just need to <do the thing>.

Question is how do you start that engine once it's become stopped and rusty? Is there a perfect mixture of carrot and stick that works for everyone (probably not)?
 
northstandmark said:
Only each of us knows in innards of our own mind, and even then there's limits. But for me positive mental health is derived from having purpose, from accomplishing tasks (even tiny), and from routine. And part of that comes from my job, also non work commitments and interests, also some exercise. When I least feel like doing something is actually when I need to do it the most.

A symptom of poor mental health is the inability to get up and out, to see the world and do things. Which paradoxically is part of the fix to the situation. You can talk or worry about something until the cows come home but sometimes you just need to <do the thing>.

Question is how do you start that engine once it's become stopped and rusty? Is there a perfect mixture of carrot and stick that works for everyone (probably not)?
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It's the same solutions for everyone. You invest, you give people a roof over their head, food, take care of the essentials. You give them education. You give them free access to health care so that they can recover if they can. You give them the skills and financial means to go out and find work.

Only in a stable environment like this is it possible to become a reliable contributor to the economy.

The last thing you do is make repeated cuts to public services and expect people to just cope and be able to drag themselves off to suitable jobs that don't exist.
 
Red Sky said:
It's the same solutions for everyone. You invest, you give people a roof over their head, food, take care of the essentials. You give them education. You give them free access to health care so that they can recover if they can. You give them the skills and financial means to go out and find work.

Only in a stable environment like this is it possible to become a reliable contributor to the economy.

The last thing you do is make repeated cuts to public services and expect people to just cope and be able to drag themselves off to suitable jobs that don't exist.
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To play devil's advocate, what's deemed a suitable job?

There are plenty of jobs advertised, yes some require experience, but not all.

Perhaps expectations need to be adjusted fir now?

People are more educated now, in general. Many more go down university route. Problem is there aren't ebough 'suitable jobs' in every sector to accommodate graduates.
 
MB1980 said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Mental health culture has gone too far, says Mel Stride

Work and Pensions Secretary unveils plan to get 150,000 people back into a job as benefits bill rises
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

Obviously mental health issues have/can have awful impact on many peoples lives.

But he perhaps has fair points in amongst it?
Click to expand...
It's really frustrating. In a similar vein to the DEI stuff, it's all good on paper and actually it's very good for the performance of the business if it's executed well but as soon as a "system" is in place it's exploited especially when challenging it becomes taboo. For me a free market of ideas is important as is leaning into the science. Personally I think people should work so long as the cost of supporting them is under the break even point. It's ironic that the Telegraph rallies against work from home while promoting the comments of someone who wants to legislate for it.

As for the Telegraph and it's weird agendas. Loaded with completely unqualifiable stats like "soaring to 2 million". I mean can ANYONE understand WTF this graph is meant to mean?
1710534691568.jpg

I like the end where they talk about "quiet quitting" and "lazy girl jobs"; like they're not just terms for existing behaviours.
 
MB1980 said:
To play devil's advocate, what's deemed a suitable job?

There are plenty of jobs advertised, yes some require experience, but not all.

Perhaps expectations need to be adjusted fir now?

People are more educated now, in general. Many more go down university route. Problem is there aren't ebough 'suitable jobs' in every sector to accommodate graduates.
Click to expand...

Every job advert has a desired list of qualities. Every potential candidate has a fixed amount of ability to perform certain tasks (unless potentially like I say you invest in training). Also every candidate has a fixed set of free time (e.g. if a parent or carer) and financial or physical means to travel to the work place. Or a fixed set of financial means to set themselves up as working from home. Or maybe they don't have a home. So a suitable job would have to match someone's circumstance to a point where they could fulfil the role reliably.

For the plenty of jobs being advertised and not being filled, they need to be looked at on an individual basis as there are myriad reasons why, ranging from insufficient remuneration vs living costs, working conditions, lack of purpose, lack of people in the area with the appropriate level of education etc.

Sometimes it's the organisation's expectations that need adjusting.

Part of the issue is certainly too many (University) courses for too few jobs. Perhaps this could be regulated better. And perhaps more investment in early education career's advice would help students make shrewder life choices that also have an economic benefit.
 
The vast majority of mental health issues in children are caused by modern day living and to a degree, poor and inadequate parenting. As a young child back in the late 60's, early 70's we were always out playing and being active. At the weekends ans school holidays we we would be out of the house at 9:00am playing football with two jumpers as goal posts, climbing trees, making go-karts out of an old baby pram frames, making bows and arrows out of bamboo cane etc. We only came home during the day if we were hungry. These days kids are stuck in their bedrooms all day staring into lap-tops, wrapped up in social media on their phones, playing silly computer games, eating junk food, not exercising (hence childhood obesity) and so, not interacting with anybody or anyone. This, in turn, causes their minds, brains and personality not to develop properly. Hence, the onset on mental illness.

Then incredibly, it is always some other faction of individual at fault.

Amazingly it would take a Government inquiry two years plus to reach this opinion in which I and many others with the foresight to see the problem would take only a couple of minutes.
 
Reality and Realism said:
The vast majority of mental health issues in children are caused by modern day living and to a degree, poor and inadequate parenting. As a young child back in the late 60's, early 70's we were always out playing and being active. At the weekends ans school holidays we we would be out of the house at 9:00am playing football with two jumpers as goal posts, climbing trees, making go-karts out of an old baby pram frames, making bows and arrows out of bamboo cane etc. We only came home during the day if we were hungry. These days kids are stuck in their bedrooms all day staring into lap-tops, wrapped up in social media on their phones, playing silly computer games, eating junk food, not exercising (hence childhood obesity) and so, not interacting with anybody or anyone. This, in turn, causes their minds, brains and personality not to develop properly. Hence, the onset on mental illness.

Then incredibly, it is always some other faction of individual at fault.

Amazingly it would take a Government inquiry two years plus to reach this opinion in which I and many others with the foresight to see the problem would take only a couple of minutes.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure you are the best advocate for that style of upbringing given how you turned out. Best sit this one out tbh.
 
Red Sky said:
Every job advert has a desired list of qualities. Every potential candidate has a fixed amount of ability to perform certain tasks (unless potentially like I say you invest in training). Also every candidate has a fixed set of free time (e.g. if a parent or carer) and financial or physical means to travel to the work place. Or a fixed set of financial means to set themselves up as working from home. Or maybe they don't have a home. So a suitable job would have to match someone's circumstance to a point where they could fulfil the role reliably.

For the plenty of jobs being advertised and not being filled, they need to be looked at on an individual basis as there are myriad reasons why, ranging from insufficient remuneration vs living costs, working conditions, lack of purpose, lack of people in the area with the appropriate level of education etc.

Sometimes it's the organisation's expectations that need adjusting.

Part of the issue is certainly too many (University) courses for too few jobs. Perhaps this could be regulated better. And perhaps more investment in early education career's advice would help students make shrewder life choices that also have an economic benefit.
Click to expand...

Yes agree with most of that mate.

This will get hammered no doubt, but an Interesting article i read a while back, suggested a significant part of the issue of 'suitable' job job availability, or jobs full-stop, was women being 'allowed' to enter the workforce in most careers/jobs.

Everyone wants/needs a sense of purpose. Men in particular are 'hardwired' genetically to gather/provide resources. so it hits men particularly hard when they cant/arent able to.if a man is rendered is obsolete in this way, itll likely cause serious issues for them... imo.

My experience of women (not all of course) and from what I've read is they're much less impacted by that... purpose derived from working, being useful to family/society in that way.

Men also (get ready to be hammered...) are also more built to deal with boring, soul crushing jobs (pragmatism) whereas a woman doing similar for long times more likely to suffer mental health consequences... 'must be more to life than this'...like I say not all. We have to be careful what we wish for sometimes. Larger % of society end up being unhappy or suffering issues. 'Fairness' and rebalance was needed of course, but still something that needs to be considered.

Some women my leave uni with degree, excited to enter workforce in choose career. Then maybe after 10, 20 years realize being a middle manager for a mega Corp and bulksh1t that comes with it shuffling paper around in an ultimately meaningless role as an expendable cog/number in the wheel perhaps isn't that great/fulfilling after all.

Sold a lie and dream that doesn't exist, basically.


There's only so many jobs available after all. People are employed to perform a function the business requires. Value exchange. Excess roles can't and won't he created, just to give everyone a chance. It's never worked like that and it won't be in future either. We'll, unless we become an extreme left wing country! And I doubt large numbers would enjoy that either, given how they tend to be structured.
 
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SlowDownDerek said:
I'm not sure you are the best advocate for that style of upbringing given how you turned out. Best sit this one out tbh.
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I have turned out to be very successful in my life and career. Unlike some of the thick idiots we have today loitering around our streets going nowhere very quickly and being a severe burden on the hard working British tax payer.

I bid you a good day.
 
The problem for us as an employer is that it is an invisible issue. No proof either way and it is taboo to ask.

Mental Health issues are real and can cripple some people but it is also used by some as an easy way to get a day off. No coincidence that some have poor mental health just after they return from a 2 week holiday to Tenerife and their flight lands at 1am , Facebook has pictures of them in the night club until 3am and they are unable to come to work on Monday morning or it is a long bank holiday weekend.

I add this view not because everyone saying they have Mental Health issues is swinging the lead but because some use it as an easy unchallengable excuse that calls into question everyones claim to having a Mental Health issue.

We have an employee that has self diagnosed Tourette's Syndrome whenever they remember to tick. Nothing usually until there is an audience. Not sure that is how Tourette's works.

Infuriating for the employer but also for the staff that have to pick up the extra work load.

Too much crying wolf.
 
Reality and Realism said:
The vast majority of mental health issues in children are caused by modern day living and to a degree, poor and inadequate parenting. As a young child back in the late 60's, early 70's we were always out playing and being active. At the weekends ans school holidays we we would be out of the house at 9:00am playing football with two jumpers as goal posts, climbing trees, making go-karts out of an old baby pram frames, making bows and arrows out of bamboo cane etc. We only came home during the day if we were hungry. These days kids are stuck in their bedrooms all day staring into lap-tops, wrapped up in social media on their phones, playing silly computer games, eating junk food, not exercising (hence childhood obesity) and so, not interacting with anybody or anyone. This, in turn, causes their minds, brains and personality not to develop properly. Hence, the onset on mental illness.

Then incredibly, it is always some other faction of individual at fault.

Amazingly it would take a Government inquiry two years plus to reach this opinion in which I and many others with the foresight to see the problem would take only a couple of minutes.
Click to expand...
Out at 9am school holidays..ya big Jesse..it was camping in yer mates back garden then up at 5 am for the doorstep milk/orange juice/bread robbing!!
 
MB1980 said:
Yes agree with most of that mate.

This will get hammered no doubt, but an Interesting article i read a while back, suggested a significant part of the issue of 'suitable' job job availability, or jobs full-stop, was women being 'allowed' to enter the workforce in most careers/jobs.

Everyone wants/needs a sense of purpose. Men in particular are 'hardwired' genetically to gather/provide resources. so it hits men particularly hard when they cant/arent able to.if a man is rendered is obsolete in this way, itll likely cause serious issues for them... imo.

My experience of women (not all of course) and from what I've read is they're much less impacted by that... purpose derived from working, being useful to family/society in that way.

Men also (get ready to be hammered...) are also more built to deal with boring, soul crushing jobs (pragmatism) whereas a woman doing similar for long times more likely to suffer mental health consequences... 'must be more to life than this'...like I say not all. We have to be careful what we wish for sometimes. Larger % of society end up being unhappy or suffering issues. 'Fairness' and rebalance was needed of course, but still something that needs to be considered.

Some women my leave uni with degree, excited to enter workforce in choose career. Then maybe after 10, 20 years realize being a middle manager for a mega Corp and bulksh1t that comes with it shuffling paper around in an ultimately meaningless role as an expendable cog/number in the wheel perhaps isn't that great/fulfilling after all.

Sold a lie and dream that doesn't exist, basically.


There's only so many jobs available after all. People are employed to perform a function the business requires. Value exchange. Excess roles can't and won't he created, just to give everyone a chance. It's never worked like that and it won't be in future either. We'll, unless we become an extreme left wing country! And I doubt large numbers would enjoy that either, given how they tend to be structured.
Click to expand...
Are you Fred or Barney?

Asking for a friend.
 
northstandmark said:
Only each of us knows in innards of our own mind, and even then there's limits. But for me positive mental health is derived from having purpose, from accomplishing tasks (even tiny), and from routine. And part of that comes from my job, also non work commitments and interests, also some exercise. When I least feel like doing something is actually when I need to do it the most.

A symptom of poor mental health is the inability to get up and out, to see the world and do things. Which paradoxically is part of the fix to the situation. You can talk or worry about something until the cows come home but sometimes you just need to <do the thing>.

Question is how do you start that engine once it's become stopped and rusty? Is there a perfect mixture of carrot and stick that works for everyone (probably not)?
Click to expand...
Your post reminds me of a mnemonic that we used for successful ageing -
Attitude
Genetics
Exercise
Interests
Nutrition
Groups (friends, social outings etc).

With any luck we can manage 5 of those.
 
Red Sky said:
Their own graph shows that the largest percentage increase in welfare since the 90s has come from those in work. They should be asking the question why so many people in work are now reliant on benefits?

They also lump in 'inactivity' with parenthood. Could it be that many simply cannot afford to pay childcare costs if they return to work?

In the picture below I'm not sure why you would choose to focus on people off work with Mental Health issues. Although if you had better NHS resources you could assess those people more accurately.

I do agree we should enable people with social anxiety to be able work from home. Although I don't believe this is something new that has never been suggested or tried other than for lack of funding.

The continuing narrative that the country's economic problems stem from lazy, particularly young people who would rather live.on benefits than work is just absolute nonsense.

View attachment 13624
Click to expand...
It boils my piss that parenthood is lumped in with inactivity. As if it's a walk in the park. Economists are waking up in a cold sweat the world over because of a demographic crisis largely of their own making yet if it's so easy to raise children in the present day, why are decreasing numbers intending to do so? Following on from that, god forbid someone eschews the rat race in favour of dedicating their time to the not inconsiderable feat of raising a well-rounded person."Inactive". Fcuk right off.
 
Another angle is training managers well. They have such an important role to play in employee's mental health.

If you dread going to work it will make your life a misery.

You don't HAVE to love your job - but you shouldn't be worried about doing it.
 
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