NON: The UK electoral system

[kirsikka]

Everything that's wrong with the FPTP system summed up in a single headline from the Grauniad.

Ed Davey: ‘Tactical voting can lock Tories out of power for a generation’

Lib Dem leader says people lending their votes to rival parties could shut the door on Conservatives at Westminster for years to come

www.theguardian.com

I'm not a Tory but they shouldn't be locked out of power due a a rubbish system. Large swathes of the population shouldn't go through life knowing their vote will never matter, leaving them feeling disenfranchised. People shouldn't be forced to hold their nose and vote for a party they don't support simply to keep a party they like less out of power.

Still, FPTP benefits the two largest parties so best stick with that then.

 

[stanthevan]

That’s exactly it. FPTP is entirely undemocratic but it suits the two big parties and hence it will never change. Tactical voting is now the only option open to many. I’m tempted.

 

[zigger zaggar]

I've been banging the PR drum all my life but can't see it ever happening here as apparently the British way is to have "strong" (massive majority) governments without any hope of consensus.

 

[Bluecherry]

There should be some kind of referendum about changing it.

 

[fritter]

if Labour and Lib Dems worked together they could wipe the Tories off the electoral map. They won't. Imagine being Starmer and knowing you could do that and then not doing it. Imagine.

 

[TrevorMorganFanClub]

There should be some kind of referendum about changing it.

We had one a while back, IIRC not many bothered to vote.

 

[kirsikka]

For a system that wasn't much better. Such a bad option that most people that wanted to change felt unable to support it. Well played by the Tories.

 

[billythekid]

Spain the latest to have an election.

All need the support of another Party as well when they get in.


The right-wing Popular Party (PP) is projected to be ahead after a general election in Spain - but it is likely to need the support of the far-right to govern.

PP is likely to fall short of an outright parliamentary majority, according to two exit polls.

However, the voter surveys suggest the party could govern if it links up with the far-right Vox, led by Santiago Abascal.

Spain election: Exit polls suggest far-right Vox could help Popular Party take power

The right-wing Popular Party (PP) is projected to be ahead after a general election in Spain - but it is likely to need the support of the far-right to govern.

news.sky.com

 

[zigger zaggar]

There should be some kind of referendum about changing it.

Yes I get the irony. IIRC nearly all the major parties (not sure about the Lib Dems but certainly the tories and Labour) campaigned vigorously against change.

 

[afcdibby]

if Labour and Lib Dems worked together they could wipe the Tories off the electoral map. They won't. Imagine being Starmer and knowing you could do that and then not doing it. Imagine.

Imagine voting for the Lib Dem’s without knowing who they will get into bed with.

 

[red_house]

There should be some kind of referendum about changing it.

A 52% win won't count remember.

 

[Bluecherry]

We had one a while back, IIRC not many bothered to vote.

We did. 2011, 68% in favour of keeping FPTP on a 42% turnout. So yeah, he current system is a bit **************** but those numbers aren’t giving me much sense of a desire to change.

 

[stanthevan]

We did. 2011, 68% in favour of keeping FPTP on a 42% turnout. So yeah, he current system is a bit **************** but those numbers aren’t giving me much sense of a desire to change.

It was a terribly badly run campaign against a vitriolic media that was petrified of change.

 

[stanthevan]

A 52% win won't count remember.

That’s what Farage said until he heard the result.

 

[Kudos]

For a system that wasn't much better. Such a bad option that most people that wanted to change felt unable to support it. Well played by the Tories.

I read this argument so many times but it still kills me.

It's a step in the right direction. It's a chip away from the power base of the big two and the argument that it's perfection or nothing from otherwise intelligent people blows my mind.

All it's done is cement the argument that there's no appetite for electoral reform and nothing will remotely change now in our lifetimes.

 

[Cherriess]

I used to be all for PR, but no doubting that it encourages coalitions, which often break down. This often causes less stability and less investment and everything that comes from that. Not to mention a greater chance of majority but notpar absolute majority governments getting into bed with unsavory partie Not sure what the answer is anymore.

 

[New Old Cherry]

If you did a survey on the pavements across Britain to see how many people are actually interested enough in Politics to get enough information on the Manifestos or having even a limited working knowledge of how things are run ..then I think it might reveal a shockingly low figure of say 15 to 20 % ...especially among the younger generations....many of them are only interested in Celeb Culture issues, Fashions and Games on their Mobiles and are totally bored by Politics.
I don't think the Education System is any good any more tbh....and schools and school teachers are a very weak link. No Discipline for a start....and baby criminals being produced by the thousands. Many parents too have completely lost the plot.
Apart from that :
When I observe the childish rantings of the Lib Dem leader Ed Davey . ..my God I'm thinking . What the bloody hell is the silly bugger getting excited about. ..the guy hasn't a clue about British Life and what folk want or need. Bizarre.
Tory and Labour ?..well is there any real meaning attached to those labels now ?..divided loyalties within, making the policies irrelevant because bugger all gets sorted once the Bills are passed....nothing is followed through or followed up....and I think many Civil Servants in the system have rapped their hands in and are just coasting along to pensions and basically not giving a sh*t about the job ....I've actually been told that from someone on the inside at MAFF....and another attached to the NHS.
Desperate Remedies...not so much century- old book title but a social phenomenon on our doorstep !
The Nation is in a perilous predicament with a PM joking his way through each day....and pretending he has a firm hand on the rudder...
..Banking is in a bloody mess ....oh I don't f√cking know what the hell it's leading up to...we could end up with another flaming Hitler....auditions are being held I fear....across in Moscow preceding to the wake of Mr Putin.. and Neo - Nazis are alive and kicking in.....guess where....Ukraine !
Oh yes Batman....things across the channel are as complicated as when Napoleon was pulling his Bonaparte ....that'll do for now!

 

[zigger zaggar]

If you did a survey on the pavements across Britain to see how many people are actually interested enough in Politics to get enough information on the Manifestos or having even a limited working knowledge of how things are run ..then I think it might reveal a shockingly low figure of say 15 to 20 % ...especially among the younger generations....many of them are only interested in Celeb Culture issues, Fashions and Games on their Mobiles and are totally bored by Politics.
I don't think the Education System is any good any more tbh....and schools and school teachers are a very weak link. No Discipline for a start....and baby criminals being produced by the thousands. Many parents too have completely lost the plot.
Apart from that :
When I observe the childish rantings of the Lib Dem leader Ed Davey . ..my God I'm thinking . What the bloody hell is the silly bugger getting excited about. ..the guy hasn't a clue about British Life and what folk want or need. Bizarre.
Tory and Labour ?..well is there any real meaning attached to those labels now ?..divided loyalties within, making the policies irrelevant because bugger all gets sorted once the Bills are passed....nothing is followed through or followed up....and I think many Civil Servants in the system have rapped their hands in and are just coasting along to pensions and basically not giving a sh*t about the job ....I've actually been told that from someone on the inside at MAFF....and another attached to the NHS. Desperate Remedies...not so much century- old book title but a social phenomenon on our doorstep !
The Nation is in a perilous predicament with a PM joking his way through each day....and pretending he has a firm hand on the rudder...
..Banking is in a bloody mess ....oh I don't f√cking know what the hell it's leading up to...we could end up with another flaming Hitler....auditions are being held I fear....across in Moscow preceding to the wake of Mr Putin.. and Neo - Nazis are alive and kicking in.....guess where....Ukraine !
Oh yes Batman....things across the channel are as complicated as when Napoleon was pulling his Bonaparte ....that'll do for now!

There is the occasional nugget of common sense in your inane ramblings Brian.

 

[New Old Cherry]

There is the occasional nugget of common sense in your inane ramblings Brian.

Yep I guess there might be . ..although tbh I cobble these rants together in a five to ten minute spell...without applying any filters....meant mainly as an entertainment....
If I go back to review .. and I don't very often..then I might think oh Christ did I really mean that....most times I do though because it comes from frustrations after watching News channels and hype-grinding TV Wallies like Peston, George Galloway or Piers Morgan etc.

 

[DJ]

I used to be all for PR, but no doubting that it encourages coalitions, which often break down. This often causes less stability and less investment and everything that comes from that. Not to mention a greater chance of majority but notpar absolute majority governments getting into bed with unsavory partie Not sure what the answer is anymore.

I think coalitions create more stability. You don’t risk from swinging from one extreme to another every 5 years. We could hypothetically have recently shifted from a Corbyn Labour govt to a Truss Tory govt...

Imagine how that would have gone considering how the mini budget was received when it was merely switching from one Tory chancellor to another.

I agree though, the system is broken, due to that the parties and their MP’s and those who stand as MP’s are all as bad as each other.

I’m not represented at all it seems by any of the main parties. So I have to pick and choose what my priorities at any given moment are and that’s how I end up voting.