Non - Ukraine

Doofus said:
Yes, if Russia or China were on our doorstep holding hands with, say, Holland, I think we'd be a touch peeved. I don't like Putin's belligerence and his desire to set up his vision of the 1960s world order, but elements of his arguments have validity.
Click to expand...

Isn't the role of the aggressor important in that scenario? If we were looking to invade Holland having already annexed a chunk wouldn't they be within their rights to look to China or Russia for support?
 
I like the idea if that, invading Holland I mean. It’s a relatively flat country, so easy to get around, they’ve got a lot of cheese and best of all, they’ve got some really good cafés :smoke:
 
Kudos said:
Isn't the role of the aggressor important in that scenario? If we were looking to invade Holland having already annexed a chunk wouldn't they be within their rights to look to China or Russia for support?
Click to expand...
Yes they would, but if viewed from the Russian perspective go back one stage and the potential for Ukraine to become a NATO member is distinctly unappealing to Putin. I think we also have to bear in mind that the ex Soviet bloc was seen as a buffer to European aggression going back to 1914 and 1941. After having 20 million dead in WW2 facing down Germany and capitulating in WW1 to the same foe from the West you can see why they want to keep us at more than arm's length.
Like I say I hate the belligerence of Putin and it's a real shame things can't move in the direction of coexistence, but like all things, behaviours have to be put in context.
 
Mossy1 said:
Worse than that ,it was Bittrich's 2nd ss panzer corps,i.e.two divisions.
Click to expand...

It's been a long time since I read the book so I'm sure you're right. I seem to recall they were there to recuperate after taking a battering in Normandy so no doubt not two full divisions. I remember thinking it didn't paint the Brits in the best light with ignoring intelligence and a half baked plan - that's Monty etc. rather than the soldiers of course.
 
Yep they were withdrawn there for r and r and refitting.
The germans wanted to be ready for where they expected the attack would be made by Patton further south.
 
Doofus said:
Yes they would, but if viewed from the Russian perspective go back one stage and the potential for Ukraine to become a NATO member is distinctly unappealing to Putin. I think we also have to bear in mind that the ex Soviet bloc was seen as a buffer to European aggression going back to 1914 and 1941. After having 20 million dead in WW2 facing down Germany and capitulating in WW1 to the same foe from the West you can see why they want to keep us at more than arm's length.
Like I say I hate the belligerence of Putin and it's a real shame things can't move in the direction of coexistence, but like all things, behaviours have to be put in context.
Click to expand...

I'd still contend that it's a situation of Russia's making. If they cosied up to Ukraine rather than invading it, Ukraine wouldn't be banging on NATO's door.

If anything the West is very reactionary to Russia who need Jingoism to distract from domestic issues.
 
afcb_rednblack said:
I like the idea if that, invading Holland I mean. It’s a relatively flat country, so easy to get around, they’ve got a lot of cheese and best of all, they’ve got some really good cafés :smoke:
Click to expand...

What about the 'window' shopping?

May give you a decent deal.
 
Sky

Russia is being disingenuous - but there is breathing space

by Moscow correspondent Diana Magnay

At least that’s not the end of diplomacy.

Russia's foreign minister says the US will provide a written response to each of its security proposals, though it's hard to see how what's offered in writing will differ much from what US diplomats must already have told the Russians, that their core demands on NATO expansion can't be met.

But US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says he has ideas which may address some of Russia's security concerns which he is prepared to advance in the spirit of reciprocity.

There is the glaring elephant in the room, which Russia seems to relish ignoring in its news conferences: 100,000 troops at the border, troops and S-400s now moving into Belarus for military exercises, more and more military equipment moving to Russia's western border even from as far afield as the Far East.

Russia continues to insist these movements pose no threat.

That is utterly disingenuous, as was Sergei Lavrov's claim that Russia has never threatened the Ukrainian people.


'We're not waiting to take action to counter Russia' - Blinken

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Russia, despite continuing a dialogue, also continues to escalate the crisis in Ukraine.

He said the US has made clear to Russia the consequences of invading Ukraine.

Mr Blinken also confirmed that more deliveries of security assistance are scheduled to arrive in Ukraine in the coming weeks.

"What we've agreed today is that we will share in writing next week our ideas, concerns that Russia has made, concerns that we have," Mr Blinken said.

He reiterated that "we intend, based on the conversation today... to have follow-on conversations after that".

Although this will initially be at the level of foreign minister, he said: "If it provides useful and productive for the two presidents to meet... I think we are fully prepared to do that."

But there does seem to be a window at least... a tiny bit more breathing space.
 
afcb_rednblack said:
I like the idea if that, invading Holland I mean. It’s a relatively flat country, so easy to get around, they’ve got a lot of cheese and best of all, they’ve got some really good cafés :smoke:
Click to expand...

Turn Holland into a ****hole too.

Bet they'd love an invasion of litter throwing, lard arsed, junk food eating celebrity obsessed numpties.
 
billythekid said:
Sky

Russia is being disingenuous - but there is breathing space

by Moscow correspondent Diana Magnay

At least that’s not the end of diplomacy.

Russia's foreign minister says the US will provide a written response to each of its security proposals, though it's hard to see how what's offered in writing will differ much from what US diplomats must already have told the Russians, that their core demands on NATO expansion can't be met.

But US Secretary of State Antony Blinken says he has ideas which may address some of Russia's security concerns which he is prepared to advance in the spirit of reciprocity.

There is the glaring elephant in the room, which Russia seems to relish ignoring in its news conferences: 100,000 troops at the border, troops and S-400s now moving into Belarus for military exercises, more and more military equipment moving to Russia's western border even from as far afield as the Far East.

Russia continues to insist these movements pose no threat.

That is utterly disingenuous, as was Sergei Lavrov's claim that Russia has never threatened the Ukrainian people.


'We're not waiting to take action to counter Russia' - Blinken

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Russia, despite continuing a dialogue, also continues to escalate the crisis in Ukraine.

He said the US has made clear to Russia the consequences of invading Ukraine.

Mr Blinken also confirmed that more deliveries of security assistance are scheduled to arrive in Ukraine in the coming weeks.

"What we've agreed today is that we will share in writing next week our ideas, concerns that Russia has made, concerns that we have," Mr Blinken said.

He reiterated that "we intend, based on the conversation today... to have follow-on conversations after that".

Although this will initially be at the level of foreign minister, he said: "If it provides useful and productive for the two presidents to meet... I think we are fully prepared to do that."

But there does seem to be a window at least... a tiny bit more breathing space.
Click to expand...
Might be some hope as long as they keep Biden off the airwaves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;