Players and how we judge them

Excellent posts. One thing that I can’t get my head around, at least with Brooks, is, surely the amount of data collected on the players would have pointed to something. And maybe it did and it led to him getting more medical attention, and the subsequent diagnosis.

I’m not saying the data would have in anyway be a diagnosis tool, but I would have thought and hoped that the fitness of a 24 yo professional footballer would have been monitored and raised concerns if he had not hit certain indicators for an athlete at his level and age and at this point in the season. Perhaps he had some other underlying injuries that hid the actual problem. And maybe that was the case. He wasn’t picked consistently but at the same time something with him seemed off when he did play.

As for mental health issues, well that is probably more difficult to pin point, I would hope that the relationship between the player, the coaching staff, the manager would be transparent, but perhaps it’s not in some cases. I don;t want to imply that mental health issues can be used as an excuse….but…
 
Reality is players can't perform at their peak every week, it just isn't possible. Nothing highlights that as much as individual sports.

Regarding your point about Fraser; fuck him, mental health issues or not. He downed tools and it was unacceptable. All we can ask for as fans is effort, he put none in for 8-9 months and as a result I'd be delighted to see him ride benches for the rest of his career.
 
Mental health is hard for a layman to understand at times. I know a teenager who has extreme anxiety. This anxiety can be turned on or off to suit the person's needs. A lot of money has been spent on ****** buying things like pets (£100's) because hours of tantrums would happen if ****** didn't get their own way. School is a big no-no. However if ****** wants to go out for pleasure the anxiety totally disappears and trips on buses into town on ******'s own are no problem. Meanwhile the mother is really suffering because of this behaviour and has even contemplated suicide. Help is spasmodic and quite often makes things worse. At times it's hard for me to see the illness because it is so variable.
 
The OP was well thought out and constructed....the news of David Brooks has had a profound effect on me too...football is a weird kind of bubble where as participants in our national game you are scrutinised and have to face the multitude of public opinions....you are judged continually as the expectations of fans is insanely focussed on success....behind the facade of fame and the wealth that is generated lies often a loneliness and isolation....delusions of grandeur...poor advice and the pressures of ‘users’ riding on your fame...it is not fair to make assumptions about young stars like Ibe or others who fail to cope with their talents and lose their way...
We are all human (hopefully) and in every walk of life things challenge you...I have gone from a job I loved to one I now despise due to consequences beyond my control...I have no idea how the likes of Kane or others cope with that but it really does cause some mental suffering...
As fans we should reflect on things and in our case with David we should reset our thoughts maybe ?
 
The OP was well thought out and constructed....the news of David Brooks has had a profound effect on me too...football is a weird kind of bubble where as participants in our national game you are scrutinised and have to face the multitude of public opinions....you are judged continually as the expectations of fans is insanely focussed on success....behind the facade of fame and the wealth that is generated lies often a loneliness and isolation....delusions of grandeur...poor advice and the pressures of ‘users’ riding on your fame...it is not fair to make assumptions about young stars like Ibe or others who fail to cope with their talents and lose their way...
We are all human (hopefully) and in every walk of life things challenge you...I have gone from a job I loved to one I now despise due to consequences beyond my control...I have no idea how the likes of Kane or others cope with that but it really does cause some mental suffering...
As fans we should reflect on things and in our case with David we should reset our thoughts maybe ?
I hope things change for the better for you.
 
The OP was well thought out and constructed....the news of David Brooks has had a profound effect on me too...football is a weird kind of bubble where as participants in our national game you are scrutinised and have to face the multitude of public opinions....you are judged continually as the expectations of fans is insanely focussed on success....behind the facade of fame and the wealth that is generated lies often a loneliness and isolation....delusions of grandeur...poor advice and the pressures of ‘users’ riding on your fame...it is not fair to make assumptions about young stars like Ibe or others who fail to cope with their talents and lose their way...
We are all human (hopefully) and in every walk of life things challenge you...I have gone from a job I loved to one I now despise due to consequences beyond my control...I have no idea how the likes of Kane or others cope with that but it really does cause some mental suffering...
As fans we should reflect on things and in our case with David we should reset our thoughts maybe ?

Just as a counter to that top level players are some of the most privileged and pampered individuals on the planet. They have acres to the some of the best physical and mental healthcare money can buy.

That said I think a supportive atmosphere at a stadium is better for everyone.
 
Just as a counter to that top level players are some of the most privileged and pampered individuals on the planet. They have acres to the some of the best physical and mental healthcare money can buy.

That said I think a supportive atmosphere at a stadium is better for everyone.
To counter, many footballers have come from tough backgrounds.
 
Excellent posts. One thing that I can’t get my head around, at least with Brooks, is, surely the amount of data collected on the players would have pointed to something. And maybe it did and it led to him getting more medical attention, and the subsequent diagnosis.

I’m not saying the data would have in anyway be a diagnosis tool, but I would have thought and hoped that the fitness of a 24 yo professional footballer would have been monitored and raised concerns if he had not hit certain indicators for an athlete at his level and age and at this point in the season. Perhaps he had some other underlying injuries that hid the actual problem. And maybe that was the case. He wasn’t picked consistently but at the same time something with him seemed off when he did play.

As for mental health issues, well that is probably more difficult to pin point, I would hope that the relationship between the player, the coaching staff, the manager would be transparent, but perhaps it’s not in some cases. I don;t want to imply that mental health issues can be used as an excuse….but…

Was considering similar. Not sure if it would show up in even comprehensive blood tests, or if special test needed for his illness?

You can get private blood tests done that screen for all sorts; blood count, things around vital organs, vitamin/mineral levels, testerome and whole range of other things.

I assumed pro sports men/women would get that done at least once a year?
 
Another side of the coin the family. A BOTN interview with Jeff and Marc Billing Phil's Dad. Well worth a watch.

 
I think it's just that sudden realisation that stars like Brooksy are just normal human beings at the end of the day, mentally and physically.

How many times have people thought, 'Wow i'd love to swap with him, what a life!' etc etc - and then suddenly you hear the news of his illness....
 
The David Brooks news has made me reflect a little. First and foremost, get well soon to the young man. Above all, that matters the most.

Then I think back to how we’ve discussed him of late. Let’s be honest, his form hasn’t been great. There were occasional flashes of the quality we know he possesses but nowhere near the level on a consistent basis we know he’s capable of reaching. You could easily argue that a fully fit and in form David Brooks would be the best player in the Championship and yet he’s struggled to get a starting berth with us since Christie joined.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It allows you to join dots and say ‘Well, of course. That’s the reason for that’. I know the sum of diddly squat about his illness but, from my position of pure ignorance, I’m sure that this has been sapping his body and strength for some time.

Footballers are top athletes and if something knocks their equilibrium out, it can have an effect across the board. If they aren’t as confident in their body, they aren’t as confident in their play. Not as confident in their play? Those silky skills suddenly look a little wooden and don’t come off in the same way. It can be a spiral that’s hard to break, especially if you don’t know the reason that caused it in the first place.

There’s a huge danger here that I’m retrofitting this illness to his form but as fans, we often make sweeping connections. We also make judgements and see some things as acceptable and others not based on the limited information we have; what happens on the pitch, rumours and (mostly) sanitised interviews.

Mental health is a topic that has changed a lot in recent years, for the good. People are now much more accepting of the debilitating effect it can have and (ignoring the outlier posters on here) recognise it can impact anyone. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got a cool job and lots of money, you can still suffer from depression.

Which brings me to he who shall not be named. Well usually, but this time I shall do so: Ryan Fraser. There’s a conflict here. The guy has said publicly he has struggled with his mental health yet, as fans, we’ve dismissed that on the back of everything else. Is he any less deserving of sympathy because his struggle isn’t a physical one? We don't know 100% he was suffering in his last season here but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

I’ve been wrestling with this since yesterday’s news. How much of his behaviour could be attributed to a mental health issue and how much to him simply behaving in a pretty awful way? Anyone who has been around someone with a mental health problem will likely have seen some behaviours which are out of character and could be classified as unpleasant but, because you know the person, you know it’s the illness and not them.

I want to be the adult about it and think maybe who he was in his final season here wasn’t who he is as a person and therefore I shouldn’t judge him for it. Yet, as a fan, I still squarely pin the relegation on him downing tools throughout the whole season when an injury crisis meant we had to pick him. Forget the bit about not extending his contract, it was the half-hearted not trying during the rest of the matches that bothered me the most.

Which leads me to recognise that a fan is not a rational adult. We can’t accept failures of players the way we may other people. Stop the press! That must be the least insightful comment you’re likely to read this year.

Still, Brooks and Fraser are two extremes in many ways.

What about Josh King? A guy with a range of suprising injuries and illnesses causing him to miss games and then, shall we say, mostly below par performances when he was picked all of which happened to coincide with a time he wanted away.

He’s been judged and found guilty in the court of fan opinion. At least by most, although to be fair there are a few defenders of him out there. Yet, we can’t really know what happened behind the scenes. Forget the Man Utd move and the alleged promise. Forget the headache and so on. Could the much-mocked ‘worst six months of my life’ quote have been an indicator of something else that was impacting him?

Have we been unfair to him on a human level by damning him on a fan level? Probably not, but we can't be sure.

Then there’s Callum Wilson. No need to pull punches, during his last season with us he was a shadow of the player he’d been previously. He also jumped ship as soon as he could after relegation to Newcastle and there wasn’t a hint of some larger issue affecting him. There’s been criticism but not nearly the same level of condemnation that Fraser received.

Because Wilson dealt with the media better when, as far as we know, not suffering from a mental health issue compared to Fraser who made misjudged comments when he could well have been, Callum got off lightly. Is that fair?

Yet, in the light of all this thought, do I still damn Fraser in my head? Hell, yes. It’s an emotional response even if it (maybe) isn’t a fair one. At least I question myself a touch though.

I’m absolutely guilty of rants against players on here. I’m not trying to excuse that and it likely won’t change. I guess all I can take from all this swirl of thoughts is what should seem obvious but sometimes we forget:

- Players are humans too (I). We should try to treat them like that.

- Players are humans too (II). Humans fcuk up in outrageous ways sometimes. They’re human.

- Form is a fickle mistress. So many things can affect a players form, many of which we don’t know, and may never know, anything about.

- Mental illness can be as debilitating to a players ability to perform as a physical one.


Does that mean I’ll give players an easy ride? Not really. Remember that I said fans aren’t rational? I do hope I’ll try and pick my words carefully though. Comment on the performance, not the person.
I have just come back from the break that internationals afford us, to read your post.

You sell yourself short because however harsh your criticism may seem at times to yourself, I don't see your challenging comments you describe above as ill-considered or ever put out in absolute terms to condemn. I think the key is fans wear blinkers that a fan can't help but find themselves entrapped by, which both heightens and distort that limited reality.

Excellent post!!
 
All footballers are different like any other normal person working a trade, yes the money is obscene to do a job they love but the career is short, not all will be pundits after, most pay the highest taxes than anyone into the UK and I've tried to defend them from certain factions who think that because alot of them are working class they shouldn't be on that money because that's what the elitists hate people who weren't born with money. I defended Josh King to the end because he was one of our best ever players and top PL goalscorer ever despite what some in denial said. I also thought Fraser was one of our better performers for a few months in the Winter during that relegation season before he stopped playing he just didn't back it up with previous stats in goals and assists. But we remember the 2 players who were the most consistent that bad season Ake and Rambo and they were the first to go and yeah rightly so.

Most will be just memories for fans of clubs they played for. And I'm glad mental health and diagnosing medical problems is now at an all time high and that Wales found this to hopefully save Brooksy life and career.
I do ask why our club medical people couldn't pick up this disease when he's most likely had it for a fair amount of time? The answer is probably because we need better infrastructure and staff which we didn't invest in during our PL time and that would've helped and prevented which is what I've always wanted from the club as if he hadn't been a Wales international they wouldn't have ever noticed. Mostyn is always quick to blow his own trumpet or something the club is doing well at, well what about all the negligible priorities the club needed that you messed up Jeff for your own gain. The so called Saviour of our club because the bank gave him a big loan with next to no interest because he was already rich,phuck off.

Alternatively if Brooks worked as a labourer or in retail his cancer wouldn't have been diagnosed especially with all the COVID priorities these last 2 years and that is completely unacceptable that normal people die from not being seen or diagnosed because they work in normal jobs. People also work 9 to 5 in long slog jobs they hate to stay on a financial footing and obviously get depressed but many won't go to the doctor or get the right help even if they asked and unfortunately many commit suicide especially working class men and these are the men that keep the world ticking without them nothing would be done on this planet.
 
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