Positives and negatives v Notts Forest

MB1980 said:
TBF they recruited well in the summer before. I imagine this summer was far from ideal, as in Demin had probably decided before it was officially announced he was going to sell, which I can believe would make recruiting new players even more difficult than usual.

I'm no Blake/Hughes apologist, but it was a tough brief they had to work with this summer imo.
Click to expand...
I disagree. There was money there. They had 25m for Tavs and the Argentinian Broadhurst. That’s not an exiting owner. They just didn’t have the right networking or targets. Hence the last week of panic. Sound familiar?
 
Neil Dawson said:
I disagree. There was money there. They had 25m for Tavs and the Argentinian Broadhurst. That’s not an exiting owner. They just didn’t have the right networking or targets. Hence the last week of panic. Sound familiar?
Click to expand...

Think they were/are good signings tbh. Tavernier had the highest successful completed dribbles in the PL, before his injury... shows how much we're missing him.

Senesi on face of it, also good signing, decent pedigree, but taken longer to settle in. I know you claim that Broadhurst comparison is just a bit of fun, but seriously...

Neto genuine PL quality, probably our best player. Prized away from Barca, and look at his career before... god knows why he came here.Can only assume he was aware of the the takeover, although maybe not as it didn;t prevent Parker from going weird...

Stephens - Signed as 4th choice CB.

Fredericks - Yes question marks over his injury history (well according to Waz, I haven't bothered checking it). Looks genuine PL quality, at least for mid/lower teams, so it's a shame re his fitness issues.
 
Neil Dawson said:
Not In my opinion. I’ve never said every player we have brought in is poor. I’ve just said there’s been too many poor ones.
Click to expand...

Which ones are poor in your eyes, from this summer?

We recruited well the season before - well, in terms of getting out of the division.
 
The big concern for me is that, despite being the better team for 60 mins, it was only Forest. Forget current league position, they are the worst team in the league and still the only team i think we have a realistic chance of finishing above. Failure to close the gap on them has to be viewed privately by GON as a massive failure.

As for sitting back, there are teams that can sit back and look in control. We are not one of them. Sitting back made it a question of when, not if, they will equalize. Also a massive kick in the teeth that it had to be Surridge, a player who we know very well and obviously doesn't cut it at PL level.

I feel sorry for GON. He should never have been given the head coach role in the first place. He has a squad overloaded with mediocre Championship players, and a staff team where he leans on Elphick and Cooper for advice...

I hope we can survive somehow, then rebuild significantly in the summer. But realistically I think we're everyone's favourite for relegation at the moment.
 
afcb.czech said:
The big concern for me is that, despite being the better team for 60 mins, it was only Forest. Forget current league position, they are the worst team in the league and still the only team i think we have a realistic chance of finishing above. Failure to close the gap on them has to be viewed privately by GON as a massive failure.

As for sitting back, there are teams that can sit back and look in control. We are not one of them. Sitting back made it a question of when, not if, they will equalize. Also a massive kick in the teeth that it had to be Surridge, a player who we know very well and obviously doesn't cut it at PL level.

I feel sorry for GON. He should never have been given the head coach role in the first place. He has a squad overloaded with mediocre Championship players, and a staff team where he leans on Elphick and Cooper for advice...

I hope we can survive somehow, then rebuild significantly in the summer. But realistically I think we're everyone's favourite for relegation at the moment.
Click to expand...

Yeah, its hard to imagine where we're going to pickup up 20+ points from here, it really is.

We had to win yesterday, good we stopped the rot, but it wasn't enough. Looked touch and go if we'd get anything at times.... against weaker PL opposition at home. Maybe if we sign 3 players it will inject some life, and/or get rid of O'Neil, but that's looking unlikely. It is looking likely we'll sign players though, given we apparently significantly outbid Everton for Danjuma... so no doubt we'll throw more and more money around in increasing desperation as the deadline closes in, until something sticks.

My daughter was looking through the programme at half time, and on the coaching staff/kit sponsors page, it sunk in just how inexperienced a setup we actually have. Was looking at it thinking how have we ended up with this at PL level.

It even had Cherry bear's pic and sponsor right next to the coaching staff... thought it was quite apt/fitting...
 
MB1980 said:
Which ones are poor in your eyes, from this summer?

We recruited well the season before - well, in terms of getting out of the division.
Click to expand...
I didnt think Rothwell or Stephens move you on from championship football, Fredericks has been injured for years. Senessi we were told was slow and he has given so many goals away… now relegated below Southampton’s sixth choice cb which says it all. No strategy, we signed a third right back but had one left back..no quick centre forward cover for Solanke. Let players leave before replacement. Its a total s***show.

Look how many players we’ve signed in the windows since Eddie left and how few would be in our first choice starting line up. We know we had a solid first team that Eddie left us. We needed to sign back up. They should have been bright young talent to bed in. Instead we signed a load of experienced average rota filler like Marcondes, Lowe, Pearson, Rothwell not one eye on the future. Yes we went up, but they hardly played and we are suffering the results of it now… Just really bad strategic planning but there isn’t a plan. Bill should use Brighton and Brentford as a blueprint and go get a qualified CEO and Director of football, and bin their PE teacher coach.
 
I normally try to wait a decent time after a game before commenting to allow the emotions to settle and the game felt like very decent progression. I still doubt we'll survive but I love the Championship so something to look forward to if it doesn't work out in the PL this time around. Lots of positives today that. I don't need to repeat as others have already commented.
If there was a significant negative it was Smudge. He looked like a throwback to previous games, preferring safe pass backs when his old buccaneering self would have taken on players or found that telling forward ball. I think this great player is now struggling to compete at this level.
 
Doofus said:
I normally try to wait a decent time after a game before commenting to allow the emotions to settle and the game felt like very decent progression. I still doubt we'll survive but I love the Championship so something to look forward to if it doesn't work out in the PL this time around. Lots of positives today that. I don't need to repeat as others have already commented.
If there was a significant negative it was Smudge. He looked like a throwback to previous games, preferring safe pass backs when his old buccaneering self would have taken on players or found that telling forward ball. I think this great player is now struggling to compete at this level.
Click to expand...

Yeah, always been a big fan of Smithy, love his tenacity, aggression, workrate and experience in recent years... buzzing around like a wasp, great player in his prime (by our standards).

But agree, this season seems like it will be his last at this level. Another year and it could get embarrassing. Wonder if we'll retain him if we go down?

Assume he'd take a cut now, as clearly in decline. Sadly he doesn;t have the physical stature, like Francis did, to shuffle inside as a regular CB.
 
Doofus said:
I normally try to wait a decent time after a game before commenting to allow the emotions to settle and the game felt like very decent progression. I still doubt we'll survive but I love the Championship so something to look forward to if it doesn't work out in the PL this time around. Lots of positives today that. I don't need to repeat as others have already commented.
If there was a significant negative it was Smudge. He looked like a throwback to previous games, preferring safe pass backs when his old buccaneering self would have taken on players or found that telling forward ball. I think this great player is now struggling to compete at this level.
Click to expand...
He has generally been excellent this year… one average game and your career gets written off. File under Francis, Cahill, Daniels….. who’d be a veteran player in the social media age…
 
kirsikka said:
Yet more injuries (seriously Mr Foley... get it sorted!), and an air of desperation hung around when the line up was announced. GON seemingly making a last throw of the dice by making wholesale changes. I thought it might be the end of him, but the line between madness and genius is thin.
Click to expand...

Credit where it's due for Gary O'Neil, the starting line-up was excellent. Sometimes you have to work out what partnerships complement one another. It's certainly the case with Zemura and Anthony. They won't be the right pair for every game down the left due to the defensive frailties. But yesterday against Forest gave them a chance to perform.

Then again the selection at centre back. Maybe Jack Stephens is the centre-back to complement and get the best out of Lloyd Kelly. Both looked excellent yesterday and a great selection by O'Neil.

The next change of Christie central, getting the best of his work rate and pressure, to enable O. Dango to concentrate on his attacking prowess also, another move that worked for him.

Lack of options and/or tactical nous to change things to keep momentum and freshness in the second half was our undoing.
 
Neil Dawson said:
He has generally been excellent this year… one average game and your career gets written off. File under Francis, Cahill, Daniels….. who’d be a veteran player in the social media age…
Click to expand...

I don;t think any of that is accurate tbh. He's done ok in a weak team. He's not athletic enough to be an effective full back/wing back. You need acceleration, pace, workrate, stamina, amongst other things to be dynamic in the modern game in that position. As players move into their early, mid 30's, that naturally drops off, depending on numerous factors.

Of course, if the player adapts to loss of pace, that can hold off their descent, but at fullback/wingback its particularly tough, due to nature of that role in general. Theres only so much anticipation, positioning skill that can help you deal one on one with an electric fast, PL level or elite level winger (so not Dembele ;).) Unless you start adapting your system around making up for a slow full back, which rarely makes sense imo.

Which is why we signed Fredericks tbh. OC his fitness record is dubious, but Smith is clearly in physically decline now, and Stacey is a Championship level full/wing back.
 
Last edited:
Positives - first 65 mins across the board
Negatives - the ridiculous chants after we scored and getting on the players backs for making a single backwards pass on 16 mins… nothing like a good supportive fan base to dig you out of a hole…

On to the players. Surprised to see some digging out Kelly and Moore as weak links today… All things considered I thought Kelly had a solid game… everyone is going to make one or two mistakes in 90 mins but overall he was ok… I also thought Moore played well today. Did exactly what we needed him to do in holding the play up and bringing the attacking quartet into play upfield… Yes it was a free head but I actually think it was also a bit high for him… Christie’s miss was worse IMO…

For me, the biggest mistake was taking Rothwell off as we started to sit more and more after that… We need to go harder at them for the final moments, not try and see it out… After they scored, first half AFCB turned up again and we started attacking FFS…

Outarra should have been taken off as he faded badly… or we just weren’t utilising the right enough, regardless, he needed to come off and Dembele on… earlier…

He won’t go but GON needs to be moved on if we are to have any chance of staying up…

Edited… Also heard worrying things about a bust up between Meps and Billing after Brentford, in the changing room, hence why both dropped today… Has this been mentioned here??? Slightly concerning if true…
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
Positives - first 65 mins across the board
Negatives - the ridiculous chants after we scored and getting on the players backs for making a single backwards pass on 16 mins… nothing like a good supportive fan base to dig you out of a hole…

On to the players. Surprised to see some digging out Kelly and Moore as weak links today… All things considered I thought Kelly had a solid game… everyone is going to make one or two mistakes in 90 mins but overall he was ok… I also thought Moore played well today. Did exactly what we needed him to do in holding the play up and bringing the attacking quartet into play upfield… Yes it was a free head but I actually think it was also a bit high for him… Christie’s miss was worse IMO…

For me, the biggest mistake was taking Rothwell off as we started to sit more and more after that… We need to go harder at them for the final moments, not try and see it out… After they scored, first half AFCB turned up again and we started attacking FFS…

Outarra should have been taken off as he faded badly… or we just weren’t utilising the right enough, regardless, he needed to come off and Dembele on… earlier…

He won’t go but GON needs to be moved on if we are to have any chance of staying up…

Edited… Also heard worrying things about a bust up between Meps and Billing after Brentford, in the changing room, hence why both dropped today… Has this been mentioned here??? Slightly concerning if true…
Click to expand...

That is concerning, if any truth in Billing/Mepham para. Hopefully made up now, but dropped to instill some kind of squad discipline perhaps?

Yeah, I'm sorry, but some sections of our fan base are just idiotic. People around me screaming 'shoot, SHOOOT, SHOOOT...' getting worked up when building good moves with momentum or well out of the area in a terrible shooting position. We were creating chances prior to that too.

I get frustration, if tapping around and barely created anything all game, but not on this occasion.... just mindless imo.
 
Last edited:
SteveJonesLegend said:
Positives - first 65 mins across the board
Negatives - the ridiculous chants after we scored and getting on the players backs for making a single backwards pass on 16 mins… nothing like a good supportive fan base to dig you out of a hole…

On to the players. Surprised to see some digging out Kelly and Moore as weak links today… All things considered I thought Kelly had a solid game… everyone is going to make one or two mistakes in 90 mins but overall he was ok… I also thought Moore played well today. Did exactly what we needed him to do in holding the play up and bringing the attacking quartet into play upfield… Yes it was a free head but I actually think it was also a bit high for him… Christie’s miss was worse IMO…

For me, the biggest mistake was taking Rothwell off as we started to sit more and more after that… We need to go harder at them for the final moments, not try and see it out… After they scored, first half AFCB turned up again and we started attacking FFS…

Outarra should have been taken off as he faded badly… or we just weren’t utilising the right enough, regardless, he needed to come off and Dembele on… earlier…

He won’t go but GON needs to be moved on if we are to have any chance of staying up…

Edited… Also heard worrying things about a bust up between Meps and Billing after Brentford, in the changing room, hence why both dropped today… Has this been mentioned here??? Slightly concerning if true…
Click to expand...
Glad someone mentioned the chant.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I disagree. There was money there. They had 25m for Tavs and the Argentinian Broadhurst. That’s not an exiting owner. They just didn’t have the right networking or targets. Hence the last week of panic. Sound familiar?
Click to expand...

that's peanuts, max's emptying of the loose change jar
don't pretend to be stupid
 
We do miss Tavernier…certainly Solanke and had the cruelest of luck to lose Brooks aswell ( so glad he has recovered)…GON needs to settle on a team and although mistakes may come from the likes of Kelly,JZ, Anthony and Ouatarra I feel we should stick by them and make them the fulcrum of the side?
Agree that we have some less than PL players who need to be changed like maybe Moore,Pearson,Smith,Travers,Stanislas, and even Lewis Cook…
But withBilling, Solanke,Mepham and Lerma offering some experience a good manager in the future could really sort us out (sorry it’s not you Gary!)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;