Bit IZ thought Maddison was running offside so didn’t track not knowing that LK was deeper it was all linked.
Not Kelly’s sole issue but part to to blame.
The Abuse of Kelly v3
- Thread starter NWCherries98
- Start date
Not Kelly’s sole issue but part to to blame.
billythekid
UTC Legend
It was good timing run by Maddison and a good pass from young Sarr.
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
Zabarnyi was playing him onside nevermind Aarons or Kelly so he shouldn't have thought he was offside. Kelly's position is irrelevant - Maddison runs from deep and IZ doesn't track him.
kirsikka
UTC Legend
Here's the screenshot when the ball is played. Maddison is miles onside even if IZ is the last man and so Kelly being slightly deeper plays no part.
Worth adding that at the time I wondered why Rothwell hadn't tracked the run but looking at it now he understandably had his eyes on the spare man in front of him.
The more you look at it, the more it's almost exclusively on IZ for ignoring the run.
Worth adding that at the time I wondered why Rothwell hadn't tracked the run but looking at it now he understandably had his eyes on the spare man in front of him.
The more you look at it, the more it's almost exclusively on IZ for ignoring the run.
Druss_the_Legend
UTC Legend
Yeah I remember how you pretended managers have chosen players above Senesi before. That didnt work out for you so well either.
I agree . Senesi has the passing range and can ping a ball into midfield with pace. Kelly is the best one on one defender we have got and has the extra pace
Red_till_im_ded
Fans' Favourite
Kelly really does split opinion in the same way Dom does. I'm don't think he is better than Senesi, but is quicker and I understand that was AI's reason for picking him against Spurs. I'm not sure it worked. It does seem that Kelly was ball watching for the first but may be harsh. The second though I can't see any desire in him to win that ball and get Infront of the spurs man. It was a soft goal and looked a soft leg wave from Kelly. Not totally to blame as the cross came in to easily but no urgency from him. Senesi in my opinion is stronger and his passing is better. He also drives forward with intent . Kelly is more reserved. Tending to look sideways and backwards. Perhaps takes a bit too much time and then hits the panic button when closed down quickly. Some of his passing was shocking in Saturday and he seems to struggle with range. Passes fired like a rocket to kerkez and long cross field passes straight into touch. What I would say categorically is that in the short time Senesi has been with us he seems to have progressed at this level quicker than Kelly who has had a good few years to progress. I don't think I'd sell though, yet , although I think we could and should be looking at better now with the increased funds to spend.
DJ
Moderator
It’s a shame the debate often has to be trying to rubbish one over the other. I think both Senesi and Kelly are both capable centre backs at a good age.
We know with Kelly he needs a run of games to be at his best, bit like Tommy Elphick used to be like. We had to be very patient and go through some below par performances to get him up to speed.
The key is getting a partnership going, something we struggled with last season if Stephens wasn’t playing.
We know with Kelly he needs a run of games to be at his best, bit like Tommy Elphick used to be like. We had to be very patient and go through some below par performances to get him up to speed.
The key is getting a partnership going, something we struggled with last season if Stephens wasn’t playing.
CherryBare
UTC Legend
Personally I prefer Senesi, his passing and positional play is way better, and Kelly just frustrates me at how he slows the game down when he has the ball.
Let's be honest there's not a lot in it, they're both good players.
In terms of your comment re managers picking Kelly over senesi, you can only be counting O'Neil. Parker had senesi for 2 games, and AI for one game when they both could have started.
adam0102
Fans' Favourite
And, if I recall correctly, GO'N was just a PE teacher, so why would any other manager do anything the same way he did?
Part of the problem here is the guy passing the ball has not been closed down at all. He has yards of space to pick that relatively simple pass. If Philip had got closer he would have made the pass much more unlikely, he should be striving to close him down as he also has the room to get a shot in. I am not actually sure who anyone in the back 4 is marking either.
RobTrent
UTC Legend
Rothwell may have 'had his eyes' on he spare man but the midfield were nowhere near those two. According to the photo anyway.
SteveJonesLegend
Fans' Favourite
A slightly better image of the line we held (or lack of) and you can clearly see Zabarnyi should probably have done better... Kelly clearly has to have one eye on Spuds' No.8
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kirsikka
UTC Legend
That's fair enough but in the post-match thread I was apportioning blame between Rothwell and IZ. This was me admitting I was probably a touch unfair. It isn't his natural position so he won't cover it as intelligently as a more suitable player but at least I can see now why he was frozen to the spot when the run went in behind him. I don't watch things back before I write so I'll get stuff wrong when my memory plays tricks and this was one of them.
So yes, he could have done better but I still think the highest proportion of blame is with Zabarnyi.
All the talk of Kelly, but in the last two matches for me it's been Zabaryni who has been the weakest centre back in both. Still adapting to the English game, of course, and maybe I had too high hopes that he would dominate from the off.
RobTrent
UTC Legend
I disagree. These split second photos are easy for picking things apart, but when the ball is moving and players are making last second decisions as to where to pass or make runs it becomes much more complicated.
That photo does not portray our defence in a very flattering light.
Kelly actually seems to be looking at players who might pose a threat but the other lot all seem to be looking at the ball, waiting for the pass to happen.
IZ is very clearly ball watching and oblivious to Madison running in behind him. He needed to have eyes on Madison at least.
When I look at that image, to me Kelly is the only one not guilty of ball watching, i.e. the one trying to do his job properly.
Philip should have done more to prevent the pass from happening and IZ should have had eyes on Madison.
It's a really good image for coaching purposes though, you can see exactly what went wrong and why. Definitely lots for AI to work on there !
SlowDownDerek
UTC Legend
Imo you always have to accept that you'll pay for the development of young centre backs in mistakes and goals. We even had to do this with Ake early in his AFCB career and certainly with Steve Cook but it often pays off in the end. I'm confident it will with Zab too as he looks to have all the attributes of a great player.
Da Bomb
First Team
For me, Zabs is far too high in the line of defence, the ball is on Kelly's side so he should be round on the cover and Kelly further forward.
If Zabs is to push up he needs to be tight/blocking the runner from getting in behind.
SteveJonesLegend
Fans' Favourite
Whilst I agree with what you're saying Rob, these players are playing elite level football, and are paid the amounts they are paid because they are (or should be) capable of reading and making these split second movements and decisions...
Whilst it obviously happens a lot, ball watching is a criminal offence in defence... When you see the move played out, Zabarnyi is so flat footed, Maddison has pretty much knocked the ball past Neto before he's even turned...
These are things I hope Andoni can start to coach, as I appreciate the lad is young, but he's played at international level and probably should do better... IMO
