The Bournemouth way...

redskins - 2/1/2018 12:59

We’ve seen this and had this conversation in previous seasons. ‘Have to cut out the mistakes as it’s costing us’
Making mistakes is healthy in some respects showing that you are trying to play out of the comfort zone and progress to higher levels, the down side is making it easier for the opposition when it goes wrong.
Stupid mistakes are the ones that are hard to take . Otherwise as long as we learn from previous mistakes then it will help us become a better footballing team in the future.
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I agree with the sentiment, but most of our mistakes nowadays are stupid and definitely not healthy. Like Francis channelling his inner rhino yesterday.
 
Tinpot Club - 2/1/2018 12:55

redharry - 2/1/2018 12:49

Absolutely nothing wrong with players publicly defending our style of play as long as privately they and EH resolve to correct the individual mistakes.
we seemed to have corrected our errors earlier this season at the expense of not scoring at the other end. The situation has reversed back to the norm.
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The thing is...is it really an either or situation? I agree our attacking has improved but if you look at the goals conceded recently, its not down to us attacking more, its basic errors which we should be able to cut out without affecting the attack
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100% spot on imo.
 
Neil Dawson - 2/1/2018 13:57

Tinpot Club - 2/1/2018 12:55

redharry - 2/1/2018 12:49

Absolutely nothing wrong with players publicly defending our style of play as long as privately they and EH resolve to correct the individual mistakes.
we seemed to have corrected our errors earlier this season at the expense of not scoring at the other end. The situation has reversed back to the norm.
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The thing is...is it really an either or situation? I agree our attacking has improved but if you look at the goals conceded recently, its not down to us attacking more, its basic errors which we should be able to cut out without affecting the attack
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100% spot on imo.
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I agree too but we still in our 3rd season in the PL seem incapable of doing it. I think we are less error prone when we play 3-5-2
 
Some are always safety first and will only be happy if the defence defend and leave the playing football to the rest of the side.

Just like some are happy with a higher tally of shots, regardless of the situations they come from.

It's all about playing the percentages for me. There is zero point in a shot on goal if the better option is a pass. This could be an obvious example like Ibe or like against Everton with Afobe.

Or just staying patient and trying to break through between the lines rather than pot luck shots from 35 yards.

Same with playing it out from defence. If the pass is on, or it's a simple ball in a non dangerous area/scenario then play the pass. If there are literally no options, safety first and play it out or long.

First instinct though has to be to look for the pass otherwise it affects your patterns of play, rotations and player positions.
 
You know given the scouting of opposition everyone that who plays us will be drilled beforehand to press our defenders as much as they can as mistakes (deliberately plural) will come in the match and at least one clear cut chance as a result. Likely more.

Until we punish someone for committing so many players to the forward press by exploiting the space left behind with some clever forwards passes, swift attacks and multiple goals it will happen in every match.

Do that and suddenly their tactical plan has to beware our potency if the press fails. Likely meaning they'll be a little more cautious about committing players and so our defenders will get more time or space on the ball making the passing easier for them.

If we want to carry in playing like that it's up to us to put the pressure back on the opposition. They know what we're going to do. We know what they're going to do in response. Get the upper hand back by making them pay and it changes the whole complexion of the plan.
 
The Bournemouth way. Certain members of our team are out of their depth in the Premier, so mistakes have happened and will continue to happen. If it wasn't for King hitting a purple patch in the second half of last season, we would have been in the exactly the same position last season as we are this season and in our first season.
Yesterday, we had Ibe, Afobe, Mouset and Pugh playing in the attack - combined league goals this season = Zero if my memory serves me right,
Ibe and Mouset haven't scored in 18 months. All this lovely build up got us nowhere, as we scored from 2 set pieces.
2 stats that came from yesterday's game should get you thinking.
Steve Cook is now the second highest scoring defender in the Premier over the 2 and a half years we have been playing in it with 8 goals. The highest is Scott Dann with 9 goals, and who does he like to score goals against?
Incredibly, Callum Wilson now holds the Premier League record for most goals without creating any assists. with 16 goals and 0 assists.
 
There have been other players ('favourites') in recent games who have made a bad pass or lost the ball, don't seem them criticised like Francis is, maybe because he is in a last chance saloon position and his mistake could/and has been costly, the same with the keeper. Then all the good work they have done in the game or before is forgotten.

Graham Sounness was back pedalling a bit on the remarks he made in a previous game and full of praise re Eddie. He also did have some valid points.






 
Francis has played most of his career as a right full back and in the heat of the moment forgets when he is playing as a central defender and that is the role he should be concentrating on. If he wants to bomb down the wing then the team has to put into effect a plan B so a midfielder covers him.

I'm not sure if Cookie started as a full back but with him it's more eye/foot co-ordination as he sometimes does a side foot scuffer for a clearance. He certainly has no problem with his vision meeting high clearances and corners.
 
I made a similar point on another thread about the players being caught out when they make a mistake.
 
kirsikka - 2/1/2018 14:33


Until we punish someone for committing so many players to the forward press by exploiting the space left behind with some clever forwards passes, swift attacks and multiple goals it will happen in every match.

Do that and suddenly their tactical plan has to beware our potency if the press fails. Likely meaning they'll be a little more cautious about committing players and so our defenders will get more time or space on the ball making the passing easier for them.
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I always thought that one of the key part of playing out from the back (but also the main challenge) is "beating the press". If 4 players press the defence, a good team (quick feet and movement) will simply pass the ball around them and into midfield. That leaves 6 v 6 with two-thirds of the pitch to attack into. Good odds for an attacking team. Man City have been brilliant at doing it this season (and Spurs did it well last year). Man City deliberately use / need their GK to act a sweeper making it 5 v 4 when the press comes (hence Pep wanting a GK who is comfortable with ball at feet). I'm not sure playing long necessarily helps as the "press" is intended to close down certain angles and force the ball into particular areas of the pitch when played long. That's why when we press and the ball gets hoofed we win it back so often. Ultimately we're pretty good at playing out from the back ... just not as good as a top team so we get caught out more often.

Fwiw, against Brighton, I thought the defence (and S. Cook in particular) was far more cautious than normal as regards putting the ball into row Z.
 
The Flying Picket - 2/1/2018 15:03

The Bournemouth way. Certain members of our team are out of their depth in the Premier, so mistakes have happened and will continue to happen.
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You've nailed it. We don't have the quality to pull it off consistently at this level without conceding shed loads. We either go all West Brom or continue shipping goals until we can get more quality in.
 
Is it as simple as that? West Brom or Bournemouth? I don’t think it is...

I think you can play out from the back by passing rather than running with it and also by asking people to stay in their positions unless chasing a goal.

There is a safer way that also keeps all the principles. Don’t go all Willo on us!
 
Neil Dawson - 2/1/2018 19:00

Is it as simple as that? West Brom or Bournemouth? I don’t think it is...

I think you can play out from the back by passing rather than running with it and also by asking people to stay in their positions unless chasing a goal.
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You missed my point. The errors are down to the quality of our squad, quality players tend to make less errors, something you agreed is the problem earlier in the thread.

Ake doesn't make the same basic errors as Francis and Cook. A Chelsea or City block don't make the same errors as us.
 
To consistently play through a press, your defenders need to be better than the players pressing you. I think this is RH’s point.
It’s not so much that our players are no good at the game plan; it’s just that this is the PL and against some of the top teams in the world it isn’t going to work well with the personnel we have.
That said, I think our players have done brilliantly given where they’ve come from.
 
This is Graeme Souness who as a manager guided Liverpool to an all time high of 6th, Newcastle 16 th and with Blackburn avoided relegation by 1 place right ?
All with comparatively big budgets
I’m all ears ! How would he guide us to being a mighty force ???

 
The Bournemouth way is the Eddie Way and most of the time it is entertaining to watch with plenty of goals and excitement.

Eddie gets criticism for his style of football which we do get caught out on.

But since Eddie has been manager at our club I have seen some of the best football I have seen in 60 years of following our club.

So far the proof is in the pudding and we are now in our third season in the Premier League and expect us to be there again for next season.
 
Ok taking the fact Souness was totally inept as a manager , sacked within 2 years at most clubs , aside .

Looking at the Brighton 2nd goal as an example .
Francis has split wide to receive the ball, something common these days for ‘footballing’ teams he had Ibe 12 yards diagonally infield surrounded by 2 players or
1 opposing player in front of him who if he can get the ball in behind, acres of grass to run into , as he has hundreds of times .
I hope that approach never changes .
 
I'd prefer to keep playing the entertaining (and frustrating!) football too, but it's probably only three or four of us that wouldn't rather play primarily for 0-0 every week
 
Dansouth - 2/1/2018 20:38

This is Graeme Souness who as a manager guided Liverpool to an all time high of 6th, Newcastle 16 th and with Blackburn avoided relegation by 1 place right ?
All with comparatively big budgets
I’m all ears ! How would he guide us to being a mighty force ???
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He also signed and played Ali Dia...
 
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