We play from the back....

Playing from the back is fine when you have the space and the time to do it...too many times we play it around whilst being pressed by the opposition and end up trying to move it too quickly causing mistakes.

Often the gap between the defence and midfield is congested and again we get closed down and lose the ball.

It is a question of ability and technique and sorry to say we don't have the ball players to make it work consistently, over the years we have seen Travers,Begovic, Franno,Steve Cook, Jack Simpson, Rico and now Mepham losing the ball or giving it away in dangerous areas. We had one guy who could do it comfortably and he is now at Man City! (not by accident either)
 
The thinking behind playing from the back is that a goal kick that goes long results in losing the ball 40% of the time in the midfield and hoofed clearance is 50/50 so it makes sense to go short and try and work your way through.

That invitation of pressure creates space that you in theory exploit in order to progress up the pitch.

It's the opposite of lumping it up, facing a stubborn two banks of 4, passing back to the keeper, and lumping it up again.

I've exaggerated that last bit for effect but that's the motivation.
 
Garbo said:
Playing from the back is fine when you have the space and the time to do it...too many times we play it around whilst being pressed by the opposition and end up trying to move it too quickly causing mistakes.

Often the gap between the defence and midfield is congested and again we get closed down and lose the ball.

It is a question of ability and technique and sorry to say we don't have the ball players to make it work consistently, over the years we have seen Travers,Begovic, Franno,Steve Cook, Jack Simpson, Rico and now Mepham losing the ball or giving it away in dangerous areas. We had one guy who could do it comfortably and he is now at Man City! (not by accident either)
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Indeed , and playing for teams like City the midfield and forwards are always on the move , into space , between the opposition so there is always an outlet for the ball ....
Whereas most other teams , us included , often have players just standing in areas of the pitch waiting for the ball , too static and easy to close down ...
 
Smash the ball forward..scrap for the bloody thing...run at the buggers...bang it into the box incessantly.. Ritchie Style...pepper the wooden bits with shots.. goals goals goals ..pick up any rebounds. ..Boyeresque and McDougallology!
 
There was a segment of play vs forest when we doing short nothing balls round the half way line while forest had 10 players back behind the ball. It looked awful, almost like counting down the clock.

Lewis cook and lerma always used to look for a forward pass but the lack of movement ahead is the issue. Too static upfront need something like the grabban/Wilson tactic of drawing defences wide to leave space for midfielders to drift into.

PS Same happened with Andrew surman, who was criticised for ball retention when couldn’t see a run.
 
AFCBade said:
There was a segment of play vs forest when we doing short nothing balls round the half way line while forest had 10 players back behind the ball. It looked awful, almost like counting down the clock.

Lewis cook and lerma always used to look for a forward pass but the lack of movement ahead is the issue. Too static upfront need something like the grabban/Wilson tactic of drawing defences wide to leave space for midfielders to drift into.

PS Same happened with Andrew surman, who was criticised for ball retention when couldn’t see a run.
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I think that is the problem with some of our play .

when we play with 1 up top, Wilson had blistering pace and would run all day long . At the moment most of the time solanke, long or surridge want it to feet. It’s so risky playing a ball on the ground 40 yards in the middle of the pitch , so it ends up just being pumped forward after we have mucked around with it in our own box . When you do have 2 up top, one looks for the feet and the other goes long and makes a proper run, giving more option

in general the wide players we have also want things to feet and rarely do we have someone wanting to get behind the defenders .( danjuma doesn’t count as he is offside before the game has started .

The football world seems to be 433 or 4231 at the moment and we are stacked with centre midfielders but going back to basics I honestly believe having 2 up top would help


to do defend against at times is easily . If we had 2 options up top we would give ourselves more options from the back and the defenders more to think about .
Also when it comes to pressing their goalkeeper and defenders, we rarely do it probably and as group
 
bpl234 said:
I think that is the problem with some of our play .

when we play with 1 up top, Wilson had blistering pace and would run all day long . At the moment most of the time solanke, long or surridge want it to feet. It’s so risky playing a ball on the ground 40 yards in the middle of the pitch , so it ends up just being pumped forward after we have mucked around with it in our own box . When you do have 2 up top, one looks for the feet and the other goes long and makes a proper run, giving more option

in general the wide players we have also want things to feet and rarely do we have someone wanting to get behind the defenders .( danjuma doesn’t count as he is offside before the game has started .

The football world seems to be 433 or 4231 at the moment and we are stacked with centre midfielders but going back to basics I honestly believe having 2 up top would help


to do defend against at times is easily . If we had 2 options up top we would give ourselves more options from the back and the defenders more to think about .
Also when it comes to pressing their goalkeeper and defenders, we rarely do it probably and as group
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From a limited sample size the data (according to footballcritic) would back you up. More points per game when playing with 2 up top. Note Av Position is where the opponents are now, not where they were when we played them. The 3421 system tends to produce low scoring affairs.

Formations.JPG

There are lot of limitations with this analysis, but it still may be insightful.
 
Matt Stevenson said:
From a limited sample size the data (according to footballcritic) would back you up. More points per game when playing with 2 up top. Note Av Position is where the opponents are now, not where they were when we played them. The 3421 system tends to produce low scoring affairs.

View attachment 5142

There are lot of limitations with this analysis, but it still may be insightful.
Click to expand...

They haven't yet processed last Saturday's 361, then.....
 
...only teams who have eleven players who are comfortable on the ball and can control it with one touch along with good passing skills can do the playing out from the back well.

We garnered lots of success back in 2015, because we could do the triangle passing and had players with energy and efficiency on the ball like Ritchie...Pugh...Arter....Francis...Fraser and Daniels. We also had bite up top with Grabban,Wilson and Yann.

That is nearly a whole team, whereas now we are sadly lacking in ball control and passing..and that is with the likes of Brooks,Lerma, Lewis, Rico, Solanke and Mepham in the side who we paid top dollar for and don't come close to the side of 2015 IMO
 
Garbo said:
...only teams who have eleven players who are comfortable on the ball and can control it with one touch along with good passing skills can do the playing out from the back well.

We garnered lots of success back in 2015, because we could do the triangle passing and had players with energy and efficiency on the ball like Ritchie...Pugh...Arter....Francis...Fraser and Daniels. We also had bite up top with Grabban,Wilson and Yann.

That is nearly a whole team, whereas now we are sadly lacking in ball control and passing..and that is with the likes of Brooks,Lerma, Lewis, Rico, Solanke and Mepham in the side who we paid top dollar for and don't come close to the side of 2015 IMO
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we used to hunt in packs with energy .

wilson Pugh Ritchie and even arter in midfield used to help us press teams to g the ball back.

now we hunt in singles . Solanke or the guy up top closing down and everyone else 30 metres behind
 
If we ain't careful...we will be in the National League South...fans sat with mobiles ramming 'stats about assists' into their files.
We ain't got time for that crap..we gotta get stuck in to it...

Saw some clips of Greaves last night..picking up loose balls just past the halfway line..weaving like a curved needle through killer defenders..and plonking it in the top corner..Best was even better at it..if they didn't get 'assists'..they insisted on assisting themselves ..Ha....haha...
 
Old Cherry said:
If we ain't careful...we will be in the National League South...fans sat with mobiles ramming 'stats about assists' into their files.

Saw some clips of Greaves last night..picking up loose balls just past the halfway line..weaving like a curved needle through killer defenders..and plonking it in the top corner..Best was even better at it..if they didn't get 'assists'..they insisted on assisting themselves ..Ha....haha...
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...players like that are too rare in today's high energy games...Best and Greaves would struggle to dribble past opposition players today as they are quicker and fitter to the tackle...I would struggle to think of any current player who could beat two or three men, let alone four or five!
 
Garbo said:
...players like that are too rare in today's high energy games...Best and Greaves would struggle to dribble past opposition players today as they are quicker and fitter to the tackle...I would struggle to think of any current player who could beat two or three men, let alone four or five!
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Greaves and Best would be fitter too..modern training grounds and gyms..better physios etc ..and banned from booze to a safe degree.
 
bpl234 said:
I think that is the problem with some of our play .

when we play with 1 up top, Wilson had blistering pace and would run all day long . At the moment most of the time solanke, long or surridge want it to feet. It’s so risky playing a ball on the ground 40 yards in the middle of the pitch , so it ends up just being pumped forward after we have mucked around with it in our own box . When you do have 2 up top, one looks for the feet and the other goes long and makes a proper run, giving more option

in general the wide players we have also want things to feet and rarely do we have someone wanting to get behind the defenders .( danjuma doesn’t count as he is offside before the game has started .

The football world seems to be 433 or 4231 at the moment and we are stacked with centre midfielders but going back to basics I honestly believe having 2 up top would help


to do defend against at times is easily . If we had 2 options up top we would give ourselves more options from the back and the defenders more to think about .
Also when it comes to pressing their goalkeeper and defenders, we rarely do it probably and as group
Click to expand...

Eddie got criticised for playing 442 in prem when faced with better teams and tactics but I think it works pretty well in champ.

I like long and glad we got him, clever player ....but not as a lone striker
 
Garbo said:
Playing from the back is fine when you have the space and the time to do it...too many times we play it around whilst being pressed by the opposition and end up trying to move it too quickly causing mistakes.

Often the gap between the defence and midfield is congested and again we get closed down and lose the ball.

It is a question of ability and technique and sorry to say we don't have the ball players to make it work consistently, over the years we have seen Travers,Begovic, Franno,Steve Cook, Jack Simpson, Rico and now Mepham losing the ball or giving it away in dangerous areas. We had one guy who could do it comfortably and he is now at Man City! (not by accident either)
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If I had my way I would fine begovic a weeks wages every time he rolls the ball to his full backs!
 
I don't like the rule that allows a goal kick to go to a player in the box. Too often opponents are lurking just outside the box and can put pressure on quickly. A simple slip or misplaced pass and they're in on goal. If a goal kick is taken short then it needs moving up the field quickly, with positional sense, to put the opponents under pressure instead of us.
 
wingsnwheels said:
I don't like the rule that allows a goal kick to go to a player in the box. Too often opponents are lurking just outside the box and can put pressure on quickly. A simple slip or misplaced pass and they're in on goal. If a goal kick is taken short then it needs moving up the field quickly, with positional sense, to put the opponents under pressure instead of us.
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It maybe a law that allows goalies to knock a goal kick inside the area,but surely teams can simply ignore that allowance,and NOT do it.
 
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