Leicester - The Verdict

The problems are simple to identify .....

* 29 points in 32 games is on pace to get you relegated and the manager to get sacked.
* 48 goals allowed in 24 games is on a pace to get you relegated. See Hudds and Fulham last year, Hull and Sunderland in 2017, Aston Villa in 2016, QPR in 2015.

I am typically pretty upbeat, but these stats, over the longer period, worry me. As well as match after match of soul-crushing mediocrity (with the occasional brilliance) going back to November 3, 2018.

Panic?? Not yet, check back with me at the end of September, with Everton (H), Southampton (A) and West Ham (H), plus the League Cup game to come.

Unfortunately, the problems are simple but the solutions are beyond my ken (and most of us, I imagine).
 
wallmth said:
It’s not an obsession at all it’s a valid “opinion” I’ve been banging on about Mossy for years but I certainly not obsessed about it and the way you get all emotive . It just makes other posters think what is SSD’s problem .
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Other posters can think what they like.

I disagree with you about Moss and hopefully these young lads will reach their potential etc. but the key difference is that GK is a specialist position that Howe probably doesn't know much about and so he will no doubt defer a good deal more responsibility to Moss and his team.

What Neil is saying is that Howe has reached his limit, he can't manage better players and is tactically one dimensional. It wouldn't wind me up if he just came out and said it rather than couching it in this 'coaching staff' straw man.
 
All this stuff is overly subjective?

Its obvious to me that our brilliant but single- minded manager has got us where we are by sticking to a unique brand of football, effective in its application....but needs players to ' fit it '...not all incoming players will ' fit in' to it easily....even though they were chosen as ' likely to ' recruits...hence Ibe and Mings, Mousset , even Defoe and of course Tomlin. some examples....whereas the more conventional styles are easier to adapt to for most players.
Now...it seems this situation might have reached saturation point...other clubs have learnt how to deal with it...and Eddie needs a rethink of the whole system and the recruiting strategy.
The injury crisis might have its causation linked to the intense training AND the style of play! That too needs looking at.
Im sure Eddie is aware changes are needed!
 
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Waz afcb said:
This is a very sensible post. It feels like we are in a strange transition period in which the ability of our squad is superior to what it was, but our coaching staff seem unable to get the best out of them for whatever reason. Eddie’s niche has always been about fighting against all the odds, and squeezing every ounce of potential out of somewhat limited players for the level they were playing at, Pugh, Francis, Elphick, Gosling ect. Now we are no longer the underdogs, the mentality we once had to scrap for our lives and fight for our right to play in this division has diminished. We no longer have a squad who just thank their lucky stars that they are even playing at this level and for this club anymore. Tbh I long for the feeling that i had during our first season at this level, with the players we had we had no right to even be here, but we proved everybody wrong and survived. Now that Eddie doesn’t have this underdog mentality to base his philosophy around i fear that our coaching staff are getting shown up for their tactical limitations. We very rarely achieve success when deviating from our famed 4-4-1-1 formation and don’t seem to be able to tinker our system to combat the strengths of an opposition team. Added to the fact that we still can’t get our defensive shape anywhere near to being difficult to score against after over 4 years at this level then I really am quite worried about our prospects this season. I very much hope I am wrong, but due to natural progression we have had to evolve from what we once were, and after most of last season and the start of this it is clear that we aren’t adapting to that change. I am sure when Franno is back fit he will be straight back in the team in an attempt to claw some of our old identity back, it might even have the desired effect this season. But the stark reality is that we have to start preparing for life without these club legends, they will not last forever.
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:clap:
 
Neil Dawson said:
No, because I don’t believe that a modern day football manager is solely responsible for the development of a player. I think he partly is with his whole team.

I just think it is interesting that you had Dean Smith saying John Terry had worked so hard on transforming Mings. Why couldn’t Purches or Tindall do this, the talent was clearly there.

We then had Lys Mousset who according to Chris Wilder wasn’t anywhere near the fitness
level required to play for Sheff U having done pre season with us. They had to mothball him for a month. I thought about that after we looked knackered playing against a fresh Leicester side who had played three days before.

Still... let’s all keep pretending everything is ok with our coaching.
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I'm not arguing whether or not everything is OK with our coaching. What I am saying that Eddie is wholly responsible for the coaching set up we have. He's installed people who he trusts in every department from the first team, reserves, U21's. If that coaching team is not delivering then he carries the can. He is the director of all football activity and if it's not all OK he has to go, it's simple. No different to in a business, if say there is an issue with sales, the sales director gets the boot.

If your saying all is not good with our coaching then it's has to be the manager that goes, along with his team.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
What Neil is saying is that Howe has reached his limit, he can't manage better players and is tactically one dimensional. It wouldn't wind me up if he just came out and said it rather than couching it in this 'coaching staff' straw man.
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Why do you have the odd need to tell people what other people are saying? I don’t think anyone has reached their limit in any profession until the day they retire or kark it. I am a firm believer in human improvement.

I think Eddie has reached a temporary plateau that he has been in for nine months or so. Never before have we had players coming out saying things aren’t right as has happenned a few times in the end of last season and yesterday.

I think he is the man to turn it around and there is concrete proof that he normally finds solutions to problems results wise. I think though he is finding it harder as every indication is we are being out thought and ran rather than being out played.

So, I don’t think he should go but I do think he needs to bring in more expertise of top flight football to help him. It’s all academic anyway because he won’t!

What I don’t understand is why people say we have the most talented squad we have ever had and the best transfer window on one hand and then on the other saying it’s the players fault we are not doing well. Think it through... why do we need top level experience players but not top level experience defensive coaches?

Del will be straight back with ‘how do you know they are not top level’. To save you the bother Del because we have to score two or three to win most games.
 
Norton Cherry said:
I'm not arguing whether or not everything is OK with our coaching. What I am saying that Eddie is wholly responsible for the coaching set up we have. He's installed people who he trusts in every department from the first team, reserves, U21's. If that coaching team is not delivering then he carries the can. He is the director of all football activity and if it's not all OK he has to go, it's simple. No different to in a business, if say there is an issue with sales, the sales director gets the boot.

If your saying all is not good with our coaching then it's has to be the manager that goes, along with his team.
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That’s your view.

In all the businesses I have ran good bosses have been given a chance to change that team or time for it to come good. I think Eddie deserves both of those after what he has achieved.

If it doesn’t turn around defensively (through change or coming good) then there will be a time when he will carry the can. For me that would be if we got relegated and then got off to a bad first three months in the championship but not before. You can think someone is off the boil without wanting them sacked, if you trust they have track history in spotting and solving problems.
 
tednphil said:
Can any manager who repeatedly selects Ibe as a sub and then often brings him on to change the game, be called "Brilliant"?
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Well do you think he would prefer to bring on Ibe ahead of brooks or Danjuma? Do you think eddie’s praise of Ibe is to bolster his confidence cos so-called supporters verbally attack him? Do you think our problems are down to Ibe or other more senior players not putting in the effort?
 
Neil Dawson said:
Why do you have the odd need to tell people what other people are saying? I don’t think anyone has reached their limit in any profession until the day they retire or kark it. I am a firm believer in human improvement.

I think Eddie has reached a temporary plateau that he has been in for nine months or so. Never before have we had players coming out saying things aren’t right as has happenned a few times in the end of last season and yesterday.

I think he is the man to turn it around and there is concrete proof that he normally finds solutions to problems results wise. I think though he is finding it harder as every indication is we are being out thought and ran rather than being out played.

So, I don’t think he should go but I do think he needs to bring in more expertise of top flight football to help him. It’s all academic anyway because he won’t!

What I don’t understand is why people say we have the most talented squad we have ever had and the best transfer window on one hand and then on the other saying it’s the players fault we are not doing well. Think it through... why do we need top level experience players but not top level experience defensive coaches?

Del will be straight back with ‘how do you know they are not top level’. To save you the bother Del because we have to score two or three to win most games.
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I believe you have said this Neil. Indirectly maybe but always harking back to the 'eddie's mates' criticisms.

Anyway, I think he's not ever been able to sign a full back that can understand what he wants, they all look lost and we look half the team. I also think Lerma is a brilliant player but we've not worked out how to build a team around him yet.

I reckon Eddie knows this too despite what you say.
 
SlowDownDerek said:
I believe you have said this Neil. Indirectly maybe but always harking back to the 'eddie's mates' criticisms.

Anyway, I think he's not ever been able to sign a full back that can understand what he wants, they all look lost and we look half the team. I also think Lerma is a brilliant player but we've not worked out how to build a team around him yet.

I reckon Eddie knows this too despite what you say.
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I’m sure he does. I think when you manage friends though it is hard to see their faults or hold them to account
 
As Vardy ghosted through our defence for 23rd time he had time to mouth the words...

" yea, though I fly through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
The ball at my feet, it comforts me.
Thou preparest my route to goal in the presence of each other;
Thou annointest my boots with oil; my cup and league goals runneth over.
Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my season,
and I will dwell again in your defence at Dean Court if you dont sharpen up !
 
Norton Cherry said:
I'm not arguing whether or not everything is OK with our coaching. What I am saying that Eddie is wholly responsible for the coaching set up we have. He's installed people who he trusts in every department from the first team, reserves, U21's. If that coaching team is not delivering then he carries the can. He is the director of all football activity and if it's not all OK he has to go, it's simple. No different to in a business, if say there is an issue with sales, the sales director gets the boot.

If your saying all is not good with our coaching then it's has to be the manager that goes, along with his team.
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That’s not the case at all and if somebody has put forward a case for root and branch removal of our entire coaching recruitment staff I must have missed it .
There have been a lot of suggestions around supplementing the existing staff with people that have coached at a higher level ,played at a higher level ,have dealt with foreign players ,are multi lingual ,know next to nothing about league Two tactics but know an awful lot about the Prem ..
 
If there is one fan...who thinks Eddie Howe should go...after 4 games in a season...after 4 PL seasons...after the previous 4 rising up from almost ' Buryied.' ...then we have found the ultimate in ' le imbecile de la ville'....sounds exotic dunnit.....village idiot.....!
I say exotic....because we inhabit a football world where many ' thick f#cker' fans are seduced by exotic sounding monickers.

"Ooohh ..salivate...weve signed Magico de Magnifiquiano the Second ..from Real Liverpool for € 20 grand ".... who cant hit the side of a Wine Chateau from 5 feet!

Whereas we could have took a punt on Ned ' BoneJar' Cloggins, a 7ft centre forward from Castle Cary Dynamo in the Yeovil and District League who bags 70 goals a season ...on loan !...the goalies stop gobbling Cheddar cheese and go anorexic so they can hide from him behind the goalposts ! ..Chances are he could of bagged a few for us on cold December Sundays !
 
Hillviewred said:
You want to go on Afcb Facebook,if you say anything negative about our club, there is loads on there that will refer you back to where we've come from,it's laughable
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Dare to criticise at all on FB and you are automatically a plastic who should F off down the road and support scummers, it’s the default setting for some on there !
 
dragonm8 said:
I thought Billing and Lerma really have improved us centrally. Was very encouraged about some passages of play from the middle.

Just need the defence and attack to improve and compliment them.
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Agree with this. Lerma especially seems to have found his passing game. I was even more impressed by him after seeing his performance in this game. So calm on the ball and then he'd play a beautiful pass to somebody in space. Jeff is making this football lark look easy at the moment. Well, apart from the shooting part, obviously :rolleyes:
 
I dont think we look as fit as we used to We always ran teams into the ground I get that teams are fitter in the Prem but we always look leggy This is probably down to less possesion so why cant we keep it? Not enough options for the ball No width Forwards not running channels for a quicker out ball All this leads to loss of possession often in bad positions
 
Pete17 said:
I dont think we look as fit as we used to We always ran teams into the ground I get that teams are fitter in the Prem but we always look leggy This is probably down to less possesion so why cant we keep it? Not enough options for the ball No width Forwards not running channels for a quicker out ball All this leads to loss of possession often in bad positions
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Eddie has obviously been converted to the Neil Dawson's 'good players don't need much training' method......:D
 
Pete17 said:
I dont think we look as fit as we used to We always ran teams into the ground I get that teams are fitter in the Prem but we always look leggy This is probably down to less possesion so why cant we keep it? Not enough options for the ball No width Forwards not running channels for a quicker out ball All this leads to loss of possession often in bad positions
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We don’t look fit and we play our first team a lot less than other clubs as well.

One issue for me is the wingers have to come central to make up for the deficiency in numbers in central midfield. They take up positions between the midfield and forwards. If the move breaks down and the other team attack us on the flanks the wingers will never be able to get back and it exposes our full backs badly.

The offset is that our wingers look knackered and our full backs indecisive. Playing a number ten would allow the wingers to stay wide and provide the conduit between the midfield and forwards. It would aid defending on the flanks and make us more solid.
 
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