That PL cup record

AFCBade said:
Think each season the gap between best xi and rest widens ie we tend to sign quality players like ake, billing and Lerma now vs likes of Tomlin and Atsu in first season of prem while those dropping out the team get older (eg Surman)
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Don’t agree. It’s quite the opposite in fact. Our 2nd XI is the strongest it’s ever been. It’s just the attitude which continues to be poor.
 
Tinpot Club said:
Don’t agree. It’s quite the opposite in fact. Our 2nd XI is the strongest it’s ever been. It’s just the attitude which continues to be poor.
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I was making a different point: the gap between first team and 2nd xi is widening. That is different from saying the second team is stronger - which it is ....if everyone is fully fit.
 
red_house said:
Perhaps Eddie was being over cautious bearing in mind two days rest before Saturday, a game he will be looking to win. Someone mentioned it last night and like you I suggested players should be able to cope with three games in a week or so.

Playing devils advocate but if he'd put out the spine of the first team last night and West Ham tear us a new one we'd have people criticising last nights selection.

Obviously the buck stops with Eddie but I don't think he'll be too concerned with exiting this competition, probably more riled with some Individual performances.
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Yet he says he wants to win a trophy ?
So are we going for the FA Cup this season or will it be another third round defeat in the tamest manner ?
It doesn’t make sense when they are the only two trophies we are realistically able to win !
 
Millwall were League One when they knocked us out of the FA Cup. In fact, we became the first Premier League side to lose an FA Cup tie away to a third-tier side by a three-goal margin.

We repeated the feat the following season.
 
Neil Dawson said:
I think he will be bothered because I think he likes to get our fringe players playing competitively as part of them being ready and normally we stay in this competition until the FA Cup starts. It’s the FA cup we normally totally f*** up.

He may have been criticised had he played the first team spine... I don’t know. Normally teams get the job done then withdraw the Akes of the world on 65 mins so they don’t hit that stage of real muscle tiredness. I would imagine some of them train harder than they played last night.

There are many valid reasons for not playing the first team, i just think we should have a different approach now and try for a trophy as surely we are not worried about relegation?
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I won't worry about relegation until we have 40 points every season.

As you say there are many reasons not to play the first team. My main one would have been the 9 first team injuries our coaching team have produced this season. Personally I thought Eddie played too many first teamers last night. I would have played the U15s, at least they would have put in more effort, no one gives a toss apart from us fans about cups. I bet scummers are over the moon they've got to go to Manchester in a few weeks and get stuffed 5-0. These threads are like broken records unfortunately. Nothing will change.
Now back to the important football.......

And yes I did go last night.
 
AFCBade said:
I was making a different point: the gap between first team and 2nd xi is widening. That is different from saying the second team is stronger - which it is ....if everyone is fully fit.
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But I still don’t think it’s widening. The 2nd XI is now comprised of players with a lot of first team experience. With players like Surman, Lerma, Cook, Billing, Fraser, H. Wilson etc it’s not clear who is the first XI and 2nd. In the past we’ve had players like Hyndman and Mahoney who were nowhere close to the first XI.
 
kirsikka said:
Upsets between teams in the same division happen in football, that's one of the things that makes it so interesting. More rarely but still common enough to be acceptable, giant killings happen. For the purposes of this that's any team getting knocked out by a team from a lower division. Again that's football, especially cup football, but they should be far more few and far between for each individual club.

Since we got promoted to the PL, our cup record now includes these results:

2019/20 - Burton 2-0 - Out to a League One side in League Cup
2017/18 - Wigan 3-0 AFCB - Out to a League One side in FA Cup
2016/17 - Millwall 3-0 AFCB - Out to a Championship side in FA Cup
2016/17 - AFCB 2-3 Preston - Out to a Championship side in League Cup

That's four so called giant killings in almost as many years. This isn't news to anyone but for those pointing the fingers at the players, who rightly should be ashamed of themselves, I think this consistent record of underachievement against allegedly inferior opposition has to the be blamed squarely on the management.

When a team screws up once or twice you blame the players on the pitch. When they screw up consistently then you blame the management who picked them and prepared them.

EH is a sacred cow that nobody is looking to sacrifice, far from it, but that doesn't mean he should be immune from criticism. The performances in the cup have often been utterly shocking, even in some of the games when we weren't knocked out. I understand the theory of disjointed sides not playing well together except some of our opponents have also made large scale changes. Who prepared them on the training ground though?

I don't doubt for a minute it won't change and come January we'll do the same thing again for the FA Cup. It's the biggest letdown and disappointment of AFCB's PL era for me. All those years I dreamt of a cup run, never really thinking PL was a realistic target, and now we have a team that should be capable of it and we're throwing it away every season.

Before anyone says it, I understand the desire the prioritise the PL. I can even accept it if we put out a team that makes a fist of the cup games. However, when the same capitulation keeps happening then there must be some kind of alternative middle ground.
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These aren't giant killings though are they?
 
afcb_mattyd said:
The players on the pitch were good enough to win the game. The issue is lack of competitive match play and team cohesion. We won't get there until we can give the fringe players regular competitive games.
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Exactly... Until the academy is built and we can move up a level, we'll always be sending out fringe players out in the cold to play effectively Lg 2 opposition.

Everyone bleats on about devaluing the cup and how we've made 10 changes etc. etc. but everyone also expects these fringe players to be at the top of their game when they come off the bench on a Saturday afternoon.

They need game time and game time against the type of opposition we're expecting them to compete against at first team level. Until that happens, our so called second XI will always fail to perform when asked to as a unit.
 
OLDSKOOL said:
Yet he says he wants to win a trophy ?
So are we going for the FA Cup this season or will it be another third round defeat in the tamest manner ?
It doesn’t make sense when they are the only two trophies we are realistically able to win !
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I can't see anything changing no matter what Eddie says. It will be no different in the FA cup.
If he wants to start spouting on about trophies, its hardly likely to happen here. The problem is that if we make a decent push and find ourselves in the top half around Xmas his aim will surely be on Europe and the clubs best ever league position but lets not go there just yet.

These competitions and results screw everyone up.
 
Tinpot Club said:
But I still don’t think it’s widening. The 2nd XI is now comprised of players with a lot of first team experience. With players like Surman, Lerma, Cook, Billing, Fraser, H. Wilson etc it’s not clear who is the first XI and 2nd. In the past we’ve had players like Hyndman and Mahoney who were nowhere close to the first XI.
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Understand and we have more cover re injuries but Lerma and billing are first xi over Surman and Gosling by a long, long way now (Lerma recently impacted by international break). In addition, Gosling and Surman getting older and more injury prone. We aren’t seeing it in defence either. Difference between steve cook and Franno has widened with cook vs Mepham. Granted 3 goalkeepers!

I think your theory is correct if everyone is fully fit and on top form but we haven’t see this situation yet! It may emerge if likes of danjuma, lewis cook, brooks and Kelly all pick up form after injury. This might take until Christmas though and by then we may have more injuries.
 
AFCBade said:
Eddie’s stated ambition is to prioritise the league over cup. Made sense in early seasons but really wanted him to give it a go this season.

Having said that in all our years up to 2014, we have had one quarter final (back in 50s). He has delivered 3 quarter final league cup placements where we have lost in a busy league month to Liverpool, Chelsea and Chelsea. That is impressive.

Fa cup is a disaster in contrast. But after 6-8 games in December Eddie rests players.

Having travelled yesterday I was really hacked off with the display. Individual players are better than that but clearly a lack of intensity. That may come from Eddie as players know it’s not seen as important as the league. Having said that both Fraser and h Wilson missed two great chances when clean through. That isn’t eddie’s fault!

Southampton was a huge win and it was clear that a number of players were on the floor by the final whistle. Not sure it would have been wise to pick them yesterday given we have West Ham on Saturday both from fitness point of view and preparing the side for the game.
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"He has delivered 3 quarter final league cup placements where we have lost in a busy league month to Liverpool, Chelsea and Chelsea. That is impressive."
To my knowledge we have only been to 2 QF both vs Chelsea. Liverpool beat us in the 1/8 round.
For us to get to a QF we only have to win 3 games, normally against lower league opposition. of those 6 games, 5 were at home.
Hardly impressive in my view.
 
West Moors Cherry said:
I won't worry about relegation until we have 40 points every season.

As you say there are many reasons not to play the first team. My main one would have been the 9 first team injuries our coaching team have produced this season. Personally I thought Eddie played too many first teamers last night. I would have played the U15s, at least they would have put in more effort, no one gives a toss apart from us fans about cups. I bet scummers are over the moon they've got to go to Manchester in a few weeks and get stuffed 5-0. These threads are like broken records unfortunately. Nothing will change.
Now back to the important football.......

And yes I did go last night.
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Saints played their first team.
 
Kenya Cherrie said:
"He has delivered 3 quarter final league cup placements where we have lost in a busy league month to Liverpool, Chelsea and Chelsea. That is impressive."
To my knowledge we have only been to 2 QF both vs Chelsea. Liverpool beat us in the 1/8 round.
For us to get to a QF we only have to win 3 games, normally against lower league opposition. of those 6 games, 5 were at home.
Hardly impressive in my view.
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Definitely 3 quarter finals: Liverpool was a quarter final in 2014 as well as 2 Chelsea games. I think that is impressive.
 
AFCBade said:
Definitely 3 quarter finals: Liverpool was a quarter final in 2014 as well as 2 Chelsea games. I think that is impressive.
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I think the Liverpool match was when the Ohec started the sleeps countdown. I have to wait until the TV matches are announced to start ours : )
 
West Moors Cherry said:
I won't worry about relegation until we have 40 points every season.

As you say there are many reasons not to play the first team. My main one would have been the 9 first team injuries our coaching team have produced this season. Personally I thought Eddie played too many first teamers last night. I would have played the U15s, at least they would have put in more effort, no one gives a toss apart from us fans about cups. I bet scummers are over the moon they've got to go to Manchester in a few weeks and get stuffed 5-0. These threads are like broken records unfortunately. Nothing will change.
Now back to the important football.......

And yes I did go last night.
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So tell me, WHY did you go? Or do you live in Burton?
 
We've gone out of the FA Cup at the first time of asking three years in a row. If that becomes four that'll be the worst run in our history.
 
The cup games aren't so much 'blood and thunder' any more. Everyone tries to play football. Makes for more dull games. Also upsets aren't really upsets in the same way.

Manchester United drew nil nil home to Rochdale. A few years ago that would have been unheard of.

No matter what managers say, most just aren't that bothered about the cups.

That's just how it is now.
 
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