A Californian View

Neil Dawson said:
Brent Goulets not posted tonight with his alternative view but as I am in his homeland I thought I would. I’ve just read all this for 45 mins having got back in while you lot are all fast asleep dreaming of how to get to Derby’s ground again. Some over-reaction here that is hard to read. Eddie may be flawed and stubborn as a mule but he is our flawed stubborn mule. He dragged us out of despair and we owe him at least one bad season. Calling for his head after what he has done for us is plain wrong.

People are writing about Francis like he brought himself on. He has played outstandingly for this club, played through injuries and been with us on every step of the journey. He didn’t actually play badly either, I didn’t understand why he came on without a formation change but no point in blaming him for that, he also deserves more respect. He isn’t going to get better at his age, only a slow decline but some of the comments on here people wouldn’t say to his face.

We have been here before as well a few times; people saying we haven’t shows the amount of recent fans we have. It even happenned at the most crucial time of our best ever season in the Championship. In our first season up, when we had a horrific run, it all came together when Eddie switched to King up front on his own and a five man midfield with Gosling coming in and stopped the full backs barrelling forwards. Im hoping he is remembering this tonight! ;)

We have to remember we are not a normal club. We are too much built on one dynasty. We haven’t had a revolving door of managers and players used to changing style at the swing of a door. Changing anything here would be the mother of all risks and like all dynasties, while it may fall one day people will only remember that the trains used to run on time and there was no litter in the street. Better the devil you know for sure for me.

So, where from here. Well, if I know one thing from watching Eddie it is that he persists with things that don’t work three or four games longer than he should but there is normally a seminal moment. It sounds like that seminal moment has been reached from reading comments on the interview. His issue is that he has two more games that have zero points written all over them, but that’s no bad thing as the pressure is off and we are better at the moment when teams attack us. That gives him two games to get something right before Burnley, Brighton etc. I am sure he will make changes now.

My own view on what he should do is well documented and bores me so I’m sure it bores you lot. Forget that for a moment though, I don’t care what formation he plays or who plays in it primarily. First and foremost I’d love him to go back to what he does best... going at teams with crazy overloads and dealing with the consequences afterwards. I am sure we will get dicked from time to time but we will polish off the lower sides like we used to with glee. If we are going to go down, and i don’t think we will, let’s go down fighting and thrilling. It’s only a game... let’s enjoy playing it like we used to. Some clubs need to fear relegation because of their history and infrastructure. We don’t.... let’s remember who we are and how we got here.

So, I hope Eddie in his reflection period thinks backwards not forwards.

We all need to remember he needs us more than ever. If you found a partner at 22 who rescued you from a life threatening situation, straightened you out and gave you the unimaginably best years of your life, children, holidays, a lovely house... say that person got themselves into a slight rut, put on weight, went off sex... you would repay the favour and give them more love than ever before. That’s our role now. Let’s not be the internet equivalent of the seedy middle aged person who has ditched that partner and is standing in too tight diesel jeans in a night club mouthing the wrong lyrics of AJ Tracey to a 24 year old who just wants free booze.
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They were Levi's not diesel jeans mate
 
Agree with pretty much everything you've written Neil, except the bit about JCLs:) as I am one but not a member of the bed wetting brigade, which includes more than a few long time "fans". Anyway, imo any fan who thinks EH should go needs their head testing, but something needs to change. Maybe, as you've suggested more than once;), an addition to the coaching staff or EH recognising he hasn't got the players to play the system he wants?

Very obvious last night that Rico and Danjuma were not on the same page, glaring at each other, they need taking aside and training together until they've got some of the understanding that Pugh and Daniels had. Pretty obvious early on Billing wasn't up for it and should've been subbed in the 1st half. I thought he was bought as a back up to Lerma and Cook and I think it's about time Cook is given a run.

I thought Francis did okay and could see why EH brought him on as without S Cook there was little experience and no leader on the pitch, but that did just show how desperate it was.

Finally, EH needs to find a formation that doesn't include Fraser and I'd say the club should see if anyone wants him on loan in January as he's contributing little or nothing.
 
Johnny Comelately said:
Agree with pretty much everything you've written Neil, except the bit about JCLs:) as I am one but not a member of the bed wetting brigade, which includes more than a few long time "fans". Anyway, imo any fan who thinks EH should go needs their head testing, but something needs to change. Maybe, as you've suggested more than once;), an addition to the coaching staff or EH recognising he hasn't got the players to play the system he wants?

Very obvious last night that Rico and Danjuma were not on the same page, glaring at each other, they need taking aside and training together until they've got some of the understanding that Pugh and Daniels had. Pretty obvious early on Billing wasn't up for it and should've been subbed in the 1st half. I thought he was bought as a back up to Lerma and Cook and I think it's about time Cook is given a run.

I thought Francis did okay and could see why EH brought him on as without S Cook there was little experience and no leader on the pitch, but that did just show how desperate it was.

Finally, EH needs to find a formation that doesn't include Fraser and I'd say the club should see if anyone wants him on loan in January as he's contributing little or nothing.
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A cross hitting your own player once is bad enough, Danjuma got in the way twice!!
As for Billings, thought he covered a lot of ground and saw a lot of the ball first half, admittedly his options were limited so didnt create too much, but is that his job?
Its taken me until now to even look at this board let alone post, was truly pissed off last night
I hate Croydon and everything around it, traffic is always shocking, last night did nothing to change my view
 
RobTrent said:
I thought Lewis Cook should have come on immediately their player got sent off and we should have gone to a back three.
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Absolutely agree with this Rob, get three into the middle of midfield, Lewis doing the probing, get Danjuma and Harry wide and round the back and that should have pushed Palace back even more. You shouldn't need four defenders against one striker, even against a PL team. I would love to know why they thought bringing on Francis and staying as a back four was a good idea. Someone thought Rico may have had a knock [ although I didn't think he had ] so even then, we could have at least gone to 352.

On a wider note, I did see Neil posting and thought it would be doom and gloom, so happy to be proven wrong. Very sensible post and I agree with pretty much everything.

As one of our glass half full supporters, even I was feeling angrier by the minute watching that game. I can't think of anything positive about it whatsoever. And I have to be honest and admit that I have occasionally wondered whether there was a manager who could get us freshened up and pushing on again at times. I do think Eddie and JT need to take a step back and reassess some of what they are doing. Maybe last night was a wake up moment for the players too, I really hope it was. It was only a four games ago we were beating Man Utd and playing pretty well, so its probably fine lines and tweaks needed. Confidence is harder to just switch back on of course but if we can go all out on Saturday and get at Liverpool, get the crowd back on side and a positive performance, that will be a start.

It was a year ago we played terribly at home to Huddersfield, even though we did win that one, so this is not a crisis or anything new. Even various pundits seemed fairly relaxed last night, saying this is just what we do, we have good runs and bad ones. So we all need to stay onside with Eddie and the players and am sure things will turn again soon.
 
davygravy said:
Absolutely agree with this Rob, get three into the middle of midfield, Lewis doing the probing, get Danjuma and Harry wide and round the back and that should have pushed Palace back even more. You shouldn't need four defenders against one striker, even against a PL team. I would love to know why they thought bringing on Francis and staying as a back four was a good idea. Someone thought Rico may have had a knock [ although I didn't think he had ] so even then, we could have at least gone to 352.

On a wider note, I did see Neil posting and thought it would be doom and gloom, so happy to be proven wrong. Very sensible post and I agree with pretty much everything.

As one of our glass half full supporters, even I was feeling angrier by the minute watching that game. I can't think of anything positive about it whatsoever. And I have to be honest and admit that I have occasionally wondered whether there was a manager who could get us freshened up and pushing on again at times. I do think Eddie and JT need to take a step back and reassess some of what they are doing. Maybe last night was a wake up moment for the players too, I really hope it was. It was only a four games ago we were beating Man Utd and playing pretty well, so its probably fine lines and tweaks needed. Confidence is harder to just switch back on of course but if we can go all out on Saturday and get at Liverpool, get the crowd back on side and a positive performance, that will be a start.

It was a year ago we played terribly at home to Huddersfield, even though we did win that one, so this is not a crisis or anything new. Even various pundits seemed fairly relaxed last night, saying this is just what we do, we have good runs and bad ones. So we all need to stay onside with Eddie and the players and am sure things will turn again soon.
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I think the big problem is that we cannot play against teams that sit in. We're set up to counter attack but you can't counter if they're not attacking :). After the sending off Palace played on the counter and with Zaha and Townsend they were always a threat. Very noticeable that we played well against Man U because they attacked and for one of the first times I've seen we defended as a team.
 
Very interesting stat on The Athletic. We are currently bottom of the PL table for tackles won, with just 121. Says a lot really about our current plight...

However, in a strange turn, we lead the PL on interceptions... Go figure... Are we just a bunch of softies that only make the effort when it doesn't mean getting stuck in?!?!?
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
Very interesting stat on The Athletic. We are currently bottom of the PL table for tackles won, with just 121. Says a lot really about our current plight...

However, in a strange turn, we lead the PL on interceptions... Go figure... Are we just a bunch of softies that only make the effort when it doesn't mean getting stuck in?!?!?
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Sounds very much we are a team that likes to sit in and play on the counter attack. Instead of trying to win the ball high up the pitch, we hold our positions and make the opponents try to play through us. Hence the high number of interceptions.

There’s nothing drastically wrong with having stats like that. It’s just the evidence seems to show the style this produces isn’t working for us
 
Johnny Comelately said:
I think the big problem is that we cannot play against teams that sit in. We're set up to counter attack but you can't counter if they're not attacking :). After the sending off Palace played on the counter and with Zaha and Townsend they were always a threat. Very noticeable that we played well against Man U because they attacked and for one of the first times I've seen we defended as a team.
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Agree broadly with this. Townsend was taken off at half time though but sadly for us, Ayew had a storming game and there was Zaha too of course. But I still feel the more we could have forced them into their own half, the less they would have been able to get at us. One of the pundits saying that going down to ten men is fine for a while, its the latter stages when having had to work hard should see a difference. But we were so slow that we didn't make them chase shadows.
 
Sometimes in football the correct option is totally counter intuitive. It seems obvious that if a team is sitting in, you throw on more attackers. Often what is needed is a way to draw the opposition out of their defensive shells. That might mean taking off a striker and staggering the midfield shape. I sympathise with Eddie to an extent because had he say replaced Callum with Lewis Cook, imagine how many WTF comments there would be. But sometimes that is the best option...
 
Tinpot Club said:
Sometimes in football the correct option is totally counter intuitive. It seems obvious that if a team is sitting in, you throw on more attackers. Often what is needed is a way to draw the opposition out of their defensive shells. That might mean taking off a striker and staggering the midfield shape. I sympathise with Eddie to an extent because had he say replaced Callum with Lewis Cook, imagine how many WTF comments there would be. But sometimes that is the best option...
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Agree with this... when Pugh/Brooks/Stanislas and Ritchie played you could put extra forwards on because they had the vision and craft to put them through with little reverse balls. It’s not Frasers game though not Danjumas yet so the forwards look redundant and it all gets very clogged up. I hate to say it but I would have chucked Ibe on last night had he been there. Someone to wriggle through was what we needed and he also has the reverse ball ability as we saw to Defoe once. All our forwards are very similar. It’s interesting as well that with no aerial ability among them we can’t put high crosses in either... it really limits goalscoring if we can’t play on the counter.
 
SteveJonesLegend said:
Well written piece on Eddie here... Raises some valid argument...

https://www.football365.com/news/f365s-early-loser-the-unscrutinised-eddie-howe
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Well written and raises a lot of points raised on here. It’s why I always think Eddie needs a strong outside influence but one he picks and can trust.

The problem with not changing your manager, and I don’t for one minute think we should, is that a few teams below you always will and some will get better, have new influences and kick on. If you keep a manager you have to work out how you can kick on and develop your own new influences. That’s the bit I think we struggle with and this article highlights with our one dimensional criticism.
 
corfe_red said:
Wise words Neil, twelfth in the Premiership and some are calling for Eddie head.............FFS, you entitled *****.

Players out of form, injuries & bad signings are all part of a football club, but would anyone want a Pulis or Allardyce brought in just to try and stay the the PL……

There are only two reasons we are discussing losing to a PL club, and if they left we really are in the crap

Anyway, a good old relegating fight is much more interesting that staying in mid table…...UTCIAD
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Pullis and Allardyce? That’d really be time to pack the bags and forget about a new stadium, and the dream of doing well in the Prem. No, we’re a family and must stick together. There were calls for Bobby Robson’s head early in his Ipswich managerial career. He also had good backing in the board and thankfully stayed. You don’t see such faith much, if at all, theses days. We might be experiencing a slump right now but lessons can be learned, necessity is the mother of invention. Sometimes a kick up the backside is a good thing. Stick together folks!
 
fritter said:
This division was always going to be a challenge in terms of changing the team. The promotion team lasted longer than anyone anticipated. Last season and this are rebuilds.

We will never recapture the speed and skill that got us here. That was unique. Cast offs and never had beens coming together. They had the impossible to aim for and achieved it.

Change was unavoidable. But buying players that could attack with pace in this division in the same way we did before is not possible. Not without huge money signings.

In the championship we signed Surman and Harte. Both had championship experience and they steadied the side. These are young players still coming together. Unlike previously they all have more money than any of is could dream of. How many of them have ever been in a situation where they have triumphed over adversity? It will be interesting to see who will dig in and fight for the team and the club and who will wither, fade and want out.

We need character more than ever. We need a reaction.

utciad
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We need Fletch v2.0. His sheer doggedness and will was the fundamental foundation stone for all that followed. Geeing up his team mates, turbo charging the crowd. Lets' see who emerges and presses the right buttons in this time of adversity. Let's not go out without a whimper.

Let's play our part too. Everyone responds to a positive crowd. Often counterintuitive but singing our hearts out is going to make a difference.
 
Very good piece. A couple of defeats should see is bottom 3. Let's see what guts and character this team have.
 
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