Florist are losing it!

Neil Dawson said:
I’m with you. The problem with these sort of things is it’s hard to disaggregate the feeling towards the club from the actual events! Forest are ridiculously pumped up with some horrible fans and nothing would give me more pleasure than them going down and Luton staying up.

That said the absolute shambles that is refereeing and VAR consistency in this country at the moment is abject and embarassing. Forest have had some horrendous judgements against them. Off the scale bad in terms of both the amount and the obviousness. If this was Luton we’d all be banging their corner! So I’m glad they’ve kicked off because someone has to. I don’t like the way they’ve done it but I’m glad they’ve done it as it’s got people talking about it.

After offside, handball is the easiest call on a football pitch (with slow motion and multiple angles). How they can’t agree a consistency on this alone is beyond any comprehension. Many heads should roll and the PL should step in and hire refs from abroad and publically state they have no faith in PGMOL destroying their brand.

It needs calling out so fair play to Forest for going over the top. Still hope it carries on and they get relegated though!!
Click to expand...
Forest have deliberately accused someone of intentional bias. They’re not railing against VAR but an individual. There’s a big difference.

They also have a persecution complex so bollox to them.
 
What would be the ideal handball rule though?

We've seen all sorts given and not given.

How can we make it so easy to apply when most of the time it's subjective and a lottery.

What is the standard for distance and arms being in an unnatural position?
 
Mark WFC said:
What would be the ideal handball rule though?

We've seen all sorts given and not given.

How can we make it so easy to apply when most of the time it's subjective and a lottery.

What is the standard for distance and arms being in an unnatural position?
Click to expand...

It won’t come as any great surprise but, I’d like it how it used to be.

“Deliberate”

They can keep the t-shirt line if they like, but it should be a deliberate action. So distance and deflections should all come into account to give a benefit of doubt.
 
DJ said:
It won’t come as any great surprise but, I’d like it how it used to be.

“Deliberate”

They can keep the t-shirt line if they like, but it should be a deliberate action. So distance and deflections should all come into account to give a benefit of doubt.
Click to expand...
Good idea and I totally agree about the deflection part particularly.

Although how many handballs are deliberate I guess some will argue?
 
Mark WFC said:
Good idea and I totally agree about the deflection part particularly.

Although how many handballs are deliberate I guess some will argue?
Click to expand...
Well this where you’d probably get your little sub categories for those who want more clarity and definition.

So it’s become the norm for a defender when standing up to an attacker to have their hands behind their back. If they haven’t don’t that. It would be seen as a deliberate action to make themselves big etc.

There will still be doubt, there will still be one referee having a different perception to another… how long does it take to put your arms behind your back… how is putting your arms behind your back a natural position… how do you jump or turn without your arms moving…
 
DJ said:
It won’t come as any great surprise but, I’d like it how it used to be.

“Deliberate”

They can keep the t-shirt line if they like, but it should be a deliberate action. So distance and deflections should all come into account to give a benefit of doubt.
Click to expand...
Deliberate is about as subjective as it gets. You're not judging the action but the intention which is virtually impossible to determine.

You could use a wishy washy definition like that (and I can't think of a better one) as it should be possible through training to get a good feel for what the threshold is but personally I'd love to see players given much more benefit of the doubt than they currently are.
 
RobTrent said:
Forest have deliberately accused someone of intentional bias. They’re not railing against VAR but an individual. There’s a big difference.

They also have a persecution complex so bollox to them.
Click to expand...
Yes I think that’s largely what I said…
 
DJ said:
Well this where you’d probably get your little sub categories for those who want more clarity and definition.

So it’s become the norm for a defender when standing up to an attacker to have their hands behind their back. If they haven’t don’t that. It would be seen as a deliberate action to make themselves big etc.

There will still be doubt, there will still be one referee having a different perception to another… how long does it take to put your arms behind your back… how is putting your arms behind your back a natural position… how do you jump or turn without your arms moving…
Click to expand...
The PGMOL are funded to replace perception with consistency.

VAR is a tool to help with this.

Who is funding Howard Webb?
 
I'd go with deliberate or intentional. If a player is stopping the ball hitting them in the face that shouldn't be handball.

Should also be hand to ball and not ball to hand.

As for offside. Originally it was about seeking an advantage by being in an offside position. That meant offside traps wouldn't be offside. I'd say any offside that needs 5 minutes to analyse shouldn't be offside.
 
fritter said:
I'd go with deliberate or intentional. If a player is stopping the ball hitting them in the face that shouldn't be handball.

Should also be hand to ball and not ball to hand.

As for offside. Originally it was about seeking an advantage by being in an offside position. That meant offside traps wouldn't be offside. I'd say any offside that needs 5 minutes to analyse shouldn't be offside.
Click to expand...
For me this is the salient point. If it can’t be seen with the naked eye and needs 5 replays to come to a decision, just forget it and go with the onfield decision.
 
I don't see why they have an issue with a Luton supporting ref. All the others couldn't care less who wins, but a Luton fan wouldn't want either Everton or Forest to win.
 
DJ said:
Well this where you’d probably get your little sub categories for those who want more clarity and definition.

So it’s become the norm for a defender when standing up to an attacker to have their hands behind their back. If they haven’t don’t that. It would be seen as a deliberate action to make themselves big etc.

There will still be doubt, there will still be one referee having a different perception to another… how long does it take to put your arms behind your back… how is putting your arms behind your back a natural position… how do you jump or turn without your arms moving…
Click to expand...
I'd like a different take on this - with handball being incredibly subjective perhaps the punishment needs changing rather than the definition.

Make all but stopping a clear goal scoring opportunity an indirect freekick rather than a penalty - I appreciate that adds another level of subjective but we have already coped with that for red cards in these situations.

We've led ourselves down a rabbit hole at the moment which will be very difficult to exit in the world of slow mo and VAR so lets decriminalise it a bit - somewhat similar to hockey and foot contact.
 
KevCorfe said:
I think they were wrong to question the integrity of the officials as I think it is unconscious bias rather than deliberate/corruption. I also think it comes back to not wanting to overrule or question your colleague, especially if he is seen to be more senior than yourself.

Their statement is not the right way to behave and they should held accountable and be punished for it. They went too far but if they hadn't then everyone wouldn't be talking about it. It would have been a short discussion as happens every week then it would be forgotten and nothing changed.

If it opens discussions about how VAR is ruining the game and the ridiculous bias and contradictions week to week then that's a good thing. That's the most important point that I hope isn't overlooked. If there was more transparency then I think fans would be more understanding and there wouldn't be the vacuum for so many conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...
The Irony here is that the owner of Florist (and it must be the owner) is calling out PGMOL for bias and corruption - look at his history in Greek Football !!! ---Pot Kettle Black
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

;